Warrior Saints

[kataphraktoi]

Would any want a warrior saint unit like a Kensai from Shogun total war?

I don't mean transfer a Kensai into medieval but to make a new unit.

There would be a warrior saint for Catholics and Orthodox, I can't imagine any islamic warrior saints out there.

correct if there any Islamic warrior saints(holy men whatever)

[Stormer]

no i wouldnt the kensai is unrealitic and take away the purpose of the game.

[The Last Emperor]

The King's Royal Knight unit i feel is as near as u get to an invincible small unit in MTW and 1 of such is already enough, plus i cant see that adding any realism to the game so is no for me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[some_totalwar_dude]

What about the hassasin (spelling?) and templar knights? Aren't those warrior saints, or are they more some kind of religiously driven warriors.
I never saw the kensai so I don't exactly know what kind of unit it is.

[cugel]

some_totalwar_dude: You should get a copy of Shogun:WE/MI just to check it out Kensai were single warriors -- sword saints. It took 4 turns -- 1 entire year to train them in a province and you needed a legendary sword dojo & stuff to make them. But they were great fun to watch. Their icons were bigger than the regular men and they were essentially warriors whose incredible sword training made them almost invincible in battle. If you put one or two on a bridge or in the castle entranceway they would cut down whole units of enemies. When you saw an enemy one coming at your spearmen it was time to make a new plan or just get out of Dodge http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Ah, yes, it's all coming back to me now. Just for kicks, when I had the game beat, I'd build whole armies of those guys, then crank the unit size up to max so that I could cram 2 Kensai into a unit so that they could work as a team(then return the slider bar to normal). That way you could get up to 16 Kensai in 1 army (I don't think I ever used quite that many). It was hilarious to see a few units of these giant guys just carving up whole units or spearmen and warrior monks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Kongamato]

If the role of the lone warrior is to be reprised, it will be in the Berserk.

There are stories of one-man Berserk units using their sheer insanity to demoralize the enemy.

[Alrowan]

hehe.. kensai made me laugh and laugh the first time i saw them

[deejayvee]

Quote[/b] (cugel @ Feb. 02 2003,13:50)]Ah, yes, it's all coming back to me now. Just for kicks, when I had the game beat, I'd build whole armies of those guys, then crank the unit size up to max so that I could cram 2 Kensai into a unit so that they could work as a team(then return the slider bar to normal). That way you could get up to 16 Kensai in 1 army (I don't think I ever used quite that many). It was hilarious to see a few units of these giant guys just carving up whole units or spearmen and warrior monks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I set up a custom battle once where I had 16 Kensais defending a bridge against a very strong AI army.

They held it easy, only losing 5 or 6.

[ichi]

Regarding a Kensai-like unit for MTW.

The Kensai in STW is based on the legendary swordsmen who are recorded as having great skills and killing many men, often when outnumbered.

I don't think that this is found, at least to the same degree/extent, in Euro history.

There were, however, in Europe, small groups of seven or ten highly skilled men who were so well trained and armed that they scared off or killed much larger groups.

That might make an interesting addition.

ichi

[LadyAnn]

Oh please, no kensai-like unit in the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif It is best to leave it in STW/MI.

Annie

[hoom]

The high valour core of knight etc units are as close as necessary to kensai.

[kataphraktoi]

Warrior saint were as much part of the culture of Europe then the kensais of Japan

In orthodox and catholic sects warrior saints played an incredible part in the morale and valour of men.

One cannot simple underestimate their value in warfare

I might even make them an agent instead of a unit troop

religiously driven warriors and warriors saint are two completely different concepts altogether

one may fight for his religion without being religious

but a warrior saint is recognised for his martial qualities as well as his puritanical qualities

A hashashin is religiouosly driven but as immoral as the infidel he fights

[Fairlight]

Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ Feb. 02 2003,08:52)]Would any want a warrior saint unit like a Kensai from Shogun total war?
There's an old story in England about King Harold's defence against the invasions from Normandy and Norway. We all know about how he lost to William - but a short time earlier, he'd fended off an attack from Tostig, a viking king, at the other end of the country.

During this battle, however, the Saxon army faced a problem -- a lone berserker on a bridge. The man apparently piled up quite a few corpses in front of him, falling only to an organized charge. Perhaps the nearest thing Europe had to a kensai?

[housecarl]

At the Battle of Stamford Bridge, legend has it that a lone axeman held the bridge against all-comers for hours until a Anglo-Saxon thegn paddled under the bridge in a barrel and thrust a spear up through the wooden slats to skewer the Viking. It’s probably only a legend as holding up the army for hours would have proved an advantage for the Vikings giving them time to prepare. However, as it transpired, the Vikings were so decisively defeated that an army that arrived in 300 ships left in 24.

[Brutal DLX]

There have always been heroic last stands and such, also in Europe. But for MTW, I think it's a very bad idea to introduce such a unit. As others pointed out, you sometimes get the equivalent of that in your general's unit, after all his companions are slain in various battles, he alone will be left, for example a royal knight with level 8 valour and good battle virtues.. Such a unit can hold out for a long time...

[kataphraktoi]

Anyone want a warrior pig?

Its not religious and gives a morale bonus to all hungry peasant soldiers.

Guranteed to serve as a decoy, attracts nasty arrows and nasty knights - pig defends well vs cavalry and has some nice defence bonuses. I cannot say about the irresistible charge but I can say something about the irresistible aroma, against the Muslims it has a natural bonus - pig causes fear.

[Leet Eriksson]

I remember a muslim warrior,Rebie Bin Amer,who was identical to a kensai.bedioun with a huge build,very barbaric and never bothered with armor,just pants and fur on his shoulders.had a long beard and was pretty hairy,in battle he usually carried an axe,arabic sword(double egded version of the european 2handed sword,except the hilt was triangular in shape)or an animal shaped mace.had a lot of heroic deeds,but thats a long story.

to remain on topic,since the game tracks every man in a unit,i think we should get a "kensai" like unit when that unit survives alot of battles(much like in shogun,you'll have to fight alot to get a sword master to build a sword dojo).otherwise,they should'nt bother,becuase kensais tend to unbalance the game a bit.

[Odyssey of War]

There were some very religious catholic orders of knights around europe including:

The Knights Templars (Started as Poor Knights of the Temple in 1118) and were made up of knights and the peoples in Jerusalem when it was catholic controlled. This order included knights (heavy cavalry), serjeants (light cavalry), farmers and chaplains.

The Soveriegn Military Order of Malta (Hospitalliers of Jerusalem until 1309, Knights of Rhodes from 1309 to 1522, Knights of Malta since 1530)which included hungarians, italians, and franks. And can also be called the Knights of St.John which were stationed in Malta and Rhodes.

The Knights of the Cross formed in 1292 by the Pope in Bohemia and then spread outward from there.

The Order of the Knights of Christ was started in portugal in 1128 to rid portugal of its muslim neighbors and carry the war into africa.

The Order of Santiago (could be knights of santiago in MTW) which were in castile, leon, and portugal.

The Order of St.Thomas of Canterbury was an order started in England in 1191 for the service of english pilgrims.

The Swordbearers of Livonia were founded in 1197 to propogate the faith in the baltic region and was approved by the pope in 1202.

Other orders of non-religious affiliation:

The Order of the Garter was started in England in 1349 to pay homage to the memory of the Knights of the Round Table and was made up of 25 knights.

The Royal orders of the Star was started in France in 1352.

[Pretz]

No TW combat should be moving more towards what is realistic not what is not realistic.

[Rowan11088]

While they're at it they should add the ability for the Pope to strike down his enemies with the power of God... and of course giant robots with laser eyes...orthdox only of course.

[kataphraktoi]

Warrior Saints not realistic? Even living saints in that period not realistic??

No space for individual heroism? yes individual as in one

No opportunity for individual glory? yes one person not a general with an army

No chance for religion and bloodlust to amalgamate?

Oh well. I tried

Warrior Pig it is then.

[Pretz]

Well, take an 8 star general give him some nice horses et voila..