Ballistas...

[Rising_General]

Do they really work?... I admit i have not used them exstensivly, but when I have employed them or faced them they seemed to play a very small role.. if any at all.

Anyways I would like to here from those more knowledgable than myself..(so if you have had the game more than 3 weeks....)

JS,


Andre Malraux - “To command is to serve, nothing more and nothing less.”

[Rowan11088]

I know what you mean. It's like having a single archer firing innacurately at the enemy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I will note, however, that as their valor increases they'll be more accurate, and although they may not kill a lot, they'll decrease enemy morale. Also, they're surprisingly effective in taking down low-level castle walls (like fort ones), so that's one positive point. But anyway, catapults are easy to get, and that's where artillery gets useful. Seems like every few battles, one of those babies takes out a general. It's hilarious, yet also very sad when it's my general http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Gaius Julius]

Want some things that really work?
Get your hands on:
- Demi-Culverin Crew
- Culverin Crew
- Serpentine Crew

Then watch the fun begin. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[deejayvee]

Quote[/b] (Rising_General @ Feb. 05 2003,21:53)]Do they really work?
It depends what you mean by work.

Do they manage to fire a projectile? Yes.

Do they fire it at anything in particular? No, I don't think so. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Cazbol]

I'll let you in on a little secret. Ballistas aren't battlefield weapons meant to kill troops. They're SIEGE WEAPONS meant to damage structures. They can take down any fort, and in sufficient numbers they'll take down stone walls too. I don't think any non-drunk commander ever used them against enemy troops and expected them to kill a lot. Neither should you.

You should only build ballistas if:
- you need them too attack fortifications.
- you don't have access to catapults just yet.

It's as simple as that.

[hoom]

Bah
Anything with wooden walls can be stormed easily enough.

They can do grevious harm to powerful but small units like royal cav because if they hit then they get a guaranteed kill.

[Knight_Yellow]

yes cazbol sure u keep thinking that

romans made them and fired them in massed battery's so that at least 1 hits a guy.

[Catiline]

The Romans certainly didn't use them in mass batteries. They weren't battlefield weapons at all, but siege weapons. i can only htink of a couple of examples where they were deployed in significant numbers in a battlefield situation, and one of those is a Greek example when Philip of macedon was defeated by the Phokians.

[The Last Emperor]

Not really worth the money even as a seige weapon. Caterpults are more versatile, u can knock down walls with it and occasionally take out the king of ur enemy if it is with a high valour. Plus it more fun to see the rock roll over a few footsoldiers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Exile]

They are a waste of resources IMO. what little benefit they provide is that in the rare occassion that they hit, the target suffers a small morale penalty (fear)

I wish the AI did not insist on using them on the battlefield...

[Teutonic Knight]

Well there was that one time with the general.....

they are quite good at picking off generals and kings, I should know, one of my games ended with my heirless king with a Balissta bolt through his head

[Ryttare]

Ballistas are worthless, i ahde 15 v.4 w.3 against 100 peasants. When the battle was over i had lsot half my ballistas and killed 50 peasants, they only routed because they were worried about flanks...

[Quasi]

So far my ballistas are worthless unless I use them to take out a fort wall if I don't feel like upgrading my seige workshops (which is often considering I autocalc most of my seiges now). As for the gunpowder weapons they are only good if you are fighting on flat open land. I tried placing a serpintine on a cliff once to rain pain and death upon my foes and much to my suprise it would completely overshoot the enemy troops Apparently cannons and such can't fire down, only straight and up. But the Serpintine is definateely the most accurate of the seige weapons otherwise. Speaking of accuracy, ever notice that anytime you aim a weapon at a castle wall it has a 95% accuracy(usually hitting dead-center, not just a glancing hit) but God forbid you aim it at some troops or an arrow tower, your accuracy drops to about 10% then.....

[Odyssey of War]

ballistas have worked really well for myself in sieges. They can take out the gate and I dont have to lose as much of my army. They tend to have a shorter range than catapults or monognels, so I tend to use them for the front gate and the catapults and mangonels for the back gate since they can shoot over walls. Siege weapons are definitely helpful for a siege, so many less losses. Taking out towers with siege weapons is also fun.

[Foreign Devil]

I like hearing that my brave soldiers have breached the enemy walls. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[USMCNJ]

it seems to me that artillery is not given enought credit in this game. From my experience the only time you would need arty is if the castle can't be with out. In battle artillery is usless (God that hurts) you're might as well spend your money on spear men (these will kill 3x times as many people as the best arty unit).

[Knight_Yellow]

right then cataline explain gladiator opening sequence.

hmm wat was in that oh yes massed batteries.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

So your historical referance for the Roman period of history is a film starring Russel Crowe? Errr...OK.

[Xicote]

I sometimes use Ballistas for attacking river provinces early on in the game. Lure the enemy to the bridge, then let them open fire, they should kill a few.



Quote[/b] ]So your historical referance for the Roman period of history is a film starring Russel Crowe? Errr...OK.

Yep... never trust Hollywood. *cough*Braveheart*cough*.

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Feb. 07 2003,01:21)]right then cataline explain gladiator opening sequence.

hmm wat was in that oh yes massed batteries.
It seems you've lodged your foot firmly within your mouth on this one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Although we do see balista-like devices in the R:TW teaser clip. Do these seem a bit goofy to anyone else? Why wouldn't you just use regular archers? Correct me if I'm worong, but it seems to me that you'd have the same effect.

[Knight_Yellow]

he he

but cumon just cos braveheart was about as accurate as this number 60 compared to G.W's IQ. doesnt mean that gladiator was a load of bull as well.

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Feb. 06 2003,09:09)]romans made them and fired them in massed battery's so that at least 1 hits a guy.
I won't go picking on you for the Gladiator comment but I'd like to point out one thing in the above quote from your post. Firing mass batteries of ballistas against troops should ensure that at least 1 hits a guy.

In my post I claimed that noone used them against troops and expected them to kill a lot. Expecting to kill at least one is not what I'd call a lot. I'm sure these weapons were occasionally fired at troops but then mainly because the weapons were already in place for other purposes such as sieges. You could fire them for good measure and count your blessings if you hit something. Dragging them with you to battlefields, were they were mostly immobile, using crews of several men to fire a single missile with long intervals would have been a waste of resources. These are precisely the same reasons for using them and not using them in MTW, and in fact precisely the same limited results you get.

[hoom]

Umm is there any evidence that they were used historically for knocking down walls?

Seems to me that sending a high-powered javelin into the middle of a big army to spear through several people would be more useful than shooting them at strong, thick walls...

I guess they might have been handy for mudbrick walls rather than stone walls.

[Leet Eriksson]

you can knock down wooden wallsat least its gonna be of some use when your fighting those pesky vikings and their wooden forts with ballistas.

[Odyssey of War]

Ballistas were used in sieges, but primarily on wooden walls or on wooden gates. The strong spear/javelin would splinter through the wood and make it much easier to destroy while also putting some fear into soldiers so that they dont try reinforce the wall for fear of being shot through with a big sharp spear. They werent used (at least to my knowledge) against stone walls or for non-siege battles.

[BDC]

I think ballista type weapons were used in open battles, I watched some history documentary which showed how they had two guys turning these handles and it fired a bolt every 10 seconds or something, the first ever machine gun LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I think the Romans especially did use them, although whether they were used greatly in the middle ages is something I have no idea about.

[Jabberwock]

I think most people are missing the main point here....
Ballistas make a very annoying "twang" noise, whereas the catapult (and esp. the trebuchet) have a much more satisfying noise.
AND it's great fun watching the rocks bounce through units (anyone else aim at the front unit hoping to hit the general at the back?) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Quasi]

Funny I should turn to the History Channel to see a program on seige weapons just now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Basicly they say that the Ballista was used as a seige weapon by the Greeks and then later used as an anti-personnel weapon at short ranges. Of course the ballista they show is relatively small and can be operated by 1 or 2 people max and is operated in much the same manner as a deck-gun on a boat. What gets me is that if the Ballista was invented by the Greeks then why didn't they simply take the next logical step and shrink it down to the crossbow about 1000 years early?

They also say that catapults (called Mangonels on this program) were also sometimes used as Anti-personnel weapons against enemy lines in my the same way they are in MTW. Wonder how many Kings got flattened in Medieval times.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Kongamato]

I once saw a program where structures were being tested for tornado defense.

They fired a 2x4 out of an aircannon at various wall types.

Siding, wood, even BRICK walls of some type went down to this.

It isnt a perfect comparison, but it at least accounts for some damage caused by the javs.

The Ballistas need to go THROUGH the men they hit and kill men behind them. That would help their anti-personnel abilities.