Favorite shock units... [Archive]

MonkeyMan

11-09-2002, 19:08

I'm yet to try jan heavies post patch, my opinion of them pre patch was that they were outmatched by even average catholic infatry, and seemed to die far too quick to really be a hardened elite.

Anyone given them a go after patching? Wouldn't mind knowing if they have improved a bit given they are supposed to be the ultimate Islamic foot unit.

LordTed

11-09-2002, 19:41

Better down load patch and find out

Dawood

11-09-2002, 20:24

Ghazi infrantry and vikings is the only ones i have used enough to decide over, so I'll say the Ghazi... you gotta love mad fanatics... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Michael the Great

11-09-2002, 21:39

Quote[/b] (Dawood @ Nov. 09 2002,13:24)]you gotta love mad fanatics... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
No,let me correct,maces rule1

Cheetah

11-09-2002, 22:04

SP or MP? and where are FMAA and CMAA??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif and the none of them option ...

Nobunaga0611

11-09-2002, 22:07

Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 09 2002,10:57)]Btw,has anyone seen in the patch version,that you can break spearmen formations with cavalry by charging them frontally?
Yup, its still not easy though if you have them on hold position and formation, and they're actually a good unit. Units like Saracens, and Order Foot don't break with just a simple Cav charge. (theres always exceptions though)

Michael the Great

11-09-2002, 22:49

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ Nov. 09 2002,15:04)]SP or MP? and where are FMAA and CMAA??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif and the none of them option ...
Ah yes,I always wanted to correct this fact,that many ppl consider-Sword units r NOT shock troops,just look at their charge...

ShadesWolf

11-10-2002, 01:49

It has got to be lancers

Cadarn

11-10-2002, 02:25

I've gone for the Kats for their sheer carnage value, and the tank-like feeling they portray with their slow but unstoppable charge.

BUT my favourite shock unit has to be the unlisted Varangian Guards. Fearless and utterly deadly, these boys are my top fire-fighting unit and I try and keep a couple of them behind the front line and deploy them for maximum impact as the fighting develops.

Durendal

11-10-2002, 02:49

Where's the Scots? Clansman can be awsome shock units in the very early period. They are cheap, fast, and have the highest charge bonus for infantry in the game. And thanks to the patch, they'll cut through spearmen like butter. Even head on

MonkeyMan

11-10-2002, 03:05

Quote[/b] (LordTed @ Nov. 09 2002,12:41)]Better down load patch and find out
I did i just can't be bothered to pay a full late turk campaign to find out.

Cheetah

11-10-2002, 04:38

Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 09 2002,15:49)]
Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ Nov. 09 2002,15:04)]SP or MP? and where are FMAA and CMAA??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif and the none of them option ...
Ah yes,I always wanted to correct this fact,that many ppl consider-Sword units r NOT shock troops,just look at their charge...
Hm, true their charge is not as great as the charge of many cav units, but they can kill fast amd IMHO that is what really counts.

G0THIC-Lobster

11-10-2002, 07:51

Quote[/b] (Cadarn @ Nov. 09 2002,19:25)]I've gone for the Kats for their sheer carnage value, and the tank-like feeling they portray with their slow but unstoppable charge.

BUT my favourite shock unit has to be the unlisted Varangian Guards. Fearless and utterly deadly, these boys are my top fire-fighting unit and I try and keep a couple of them behind the front line and deploy them for maximum impact as the fighting develops.
dude i used varagian and kata pretty well....when i used em againist lancers, i charged my guards head on againist em and...btw the guards are biting them like mad of course there is till a bit casutaies but the unit size sock up da damage http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif and then the kata smash em from the back with a devasting boom and only 2 die( well lancers are expensive for what they can do.)

LordKhaine

11-10-2002, 09:29

Can't beat Irelands best for some cost effective carnage. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Gustav II Adolf

11-10-2002, 15:00

Gallowglasses rule as flankers, and they are cheep too.

Michael the Great

11-10-2002, 18:35

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ Nov. 09 2002,21:38)]
Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 09 2002,15:49)]
Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ Nov. 09 2002,15:04)]SP or MP? and where are FMAA and CMAA??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif and the none of them option ...
Ah yes,I always wanted to correct this fact,that many ppl consider-Sword units r NOT shock troops,just look at their charge...
Hm, true their charge is not as great as the charge of many cav units, but they can kill fast amd IMHO that is what really counts.
They are the best hor holding out...
Remember,sword units are the best balanced in the game...

Xer0

11-10-2002, 18:51

It must be the kataphorkis althoug I wish they should be faster.

muffinman14

11-10-2002, 19:27

Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 09 2002,14:39)]
Quote[/b] (Dawood @ Nov. 09 2002,13:24)]you gotta love mad fanatics... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
No,let me correct,maces rule1
Fanatics using maces.?

They use clubs to bash the brains out of the enemy

Michael the Great

11-10-2002, 19:30

Quote[/b] (muffinman14 @ Nov. 10 2002,12:27)]
Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 09 2002,14:39)]
Quote[/b] (Dawood @ Nov. 09 2002,13:24)]you gotta love mad fanatics... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
No,let me correct,maces rule1
Fanatics using maces.?

They use clubs to bash the brains out of the enemy
Well,aren't maces clubs with spikes on them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Rosacrux

11-11-2002, 08:43

Varangian guard. They own the field. Heavy Jan infantry is gooood. I have given them only one (pre-patch) try, but they are very tough. Too bad it's kinda hard to get those buggers with weapon upgrade...

Inferno

11-11-2002, 08:46

Vikings for me. They are not the best on the list, but in terms of value for money they are unmatched.

G0THIC-Lobster

11-11-2002, 10:45

Quote[/b] (Xer0 @ Nov. 10 2002,11:51)]It must be the kataphorkis althoug I wish they should be faster.
Yah kata should be faster but if they are still that slow the patch should say they are extremely heavily armour, hey they are heavier then most cavalry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Michael the Great

11-11-2002, 13:36

At the moment,kataphraktoi are leading http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
And I thought Lancers had a good position there...
Anyway,altough kataphraktoi are one of the heaviest cavalry,they only get 5 defence and 3 attack,btw what's with that low 3 attack?? I think even some medium infantry have 3 attack,oh and let's not forget offensive units like ghazi inf. or gallowglass....but really,for one of the most heaviest cavalry in thy game,3 attack seems kinda low....doesn't it??????

Prodigal

11-11-2002, 15:30

Kata for me, I hate fighting them & love using them, I guess the low attack's offset by them being so hard to kill.

Other's, I've no doubt, have had the 1 kata left, 9 star byzant general taking on, (& killing), all comers, nightmare.

Michael the Great

11-11-2002, 23:31

From my tests,seriously,Lancers are better as shock troops,and now with the patch,there's almost nothing they can't break...
Btw,spearmen do get broken now by heavy cav,even when charged frontally,right???

Negative

11-12-2002, 01:50

I love my Gothic Knights They take forever to get, but when I do... Look out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Before anyone says anything I know they have a lousy charge, but when your in the thick of things and have no room for a charge they are perfect. I always use them for filling in the weak spots. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

pdoan8

11-13-2002, 05:41

I voted for Lancer (I'd vote for most of them if I can have more than one vote). Also, there are some units that I use as shock (In SP) but they are not on the list.

It depends on the faction I play, the money I have and the needs, I use many different units as shocker.

For cavalry: The best would be Lancer and second would be Chiv Knight. Feudal Knight is good too. However, If I don't play as Spanish or Catholic, then I would use Armenian Cav, Ghulam Cav, Khwaraz Cav, Pronoiai, Polish Retainer, Alan Mercs (maybe), and Kat (a bit slow for the job). Whatever I can get.

For infantry: the top three are Nizaris, Ghazis and Jan Heavy Inf. Follow by others such as Viking, Varangian Guard, FMAA, CMAA, AUM, Gallowglas, Abyssinian Guard. Again, whatever I can get.

For me, most of the units can become shocker if I can get them to trike at the enemy unprotected flank or rear.

Executor

11-13-2002, 05:56

I use my 14 valor Famous Warrior general as my lone shock troop. He's an ex-prince (hence immortal) and an 8-star general (7 base, +1 for Duke of Normandy, +3 when attacking). I send him in alone to attack the opposing army at the onset of the battle. The enemy will surround him after he engages them. This causes them to expose their flanks, since the units are all turning to try to face my general. The rest of my army then rushes in and finishes off whatever units my general has left standing.

Dawood

11-13-2002, 12:55

Quote[/b] (Inferno @ Nov. 11 2002,02:46)]Vikings for me. They are not the best on the list, but in terms of value for money they are unmatched.
Vikings are great mercs, throw in the barbarians in the fray and let them go to Valhalla as they wish. Dead mercs don't require pay. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Orda Khan

11-13-2002, 17:45

Depends who is using the units

.........Orda

muffinman14

11-14-2002, 04:16

Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 10 2002,12:30)]
Quote[/b] (muffinman14 @ Nov. 10 2002,12:27)]
Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 09 2002,14:39)]
Quote[/b] (Dawood @ Nov. 09 2002,13:24)]you gotta love mad fanatics... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
No,let me correct,maces rule1
Fanatics using maces.?

They use clubs to bash the brains out of the enemy
Well,aren't maces clubs with spikes on them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Michael the Great, the picture of fanatics shows that they carry clubs with no metal heads on them but Gothic Kights have maces. Just look at the difference on each picture.

NagatsukaShumi

11-14-2002, 14:10

Kataphrakatoi without a doubt, they can even hold their own against spearman and other spear units, so I'd go with them.

Ktonos

11-14-2002, 14:33

Well, Kataphraktoi dominate the poll anyway...

3 zito for the Kataphraktous

Zito
Zito
Zito

Ktonos

11-14-2002, 14:48

Well I have just made it for a Knight.
3 Zito for me

Zito
Zito
Zito

How many posts must I have for next level? Because I want to stay a Knight.

G0THIC-Lobster

11-14-2002, 15:24

Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Nov. 11 2002,16:31)]From my tests,seriously,Lancers are better as shock troops,and now with the patch,there's almost nothing they can't break...
Btw,spearmen do get broken now by heavy cav,even when charged frontally,right???
of course this is why they are so coursey. And when fighting kataphratoi, don't let them get into flanking position and remember to get yo knight and charge them head on...they are no match. HEY THEY SHOULD INCREASE THEIR TOUGHNESS and attack. And yes cavalry breaking spear formation is crazy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Michael the Great

11-15-2002, 13:07

I don't know why Kataphraktoi have such low attack values(3 attack),compared to the Lancers who have 5 attack,judging that boath troop types are very good trained, but indeed,Lancers are heavier armoured and get 7 defence...

Ktonos

11-21-2002, 17:01

Nice poll, there is room for new votes.

Bump

Hippolyte

11-21-2002, 18:20

Kataphrakts amd Lancers are impressive but the Vikings are tops in the way of cost-effectiveness. They are cheap but extrememly strong for "early" troops. For shock troops I favour any axe-wielding units. You have to love that anti-armour bonus

Also I have a HUGE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif soft spot for halberdiers. When used correctly they are magnificent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Teutonic Knight

11-21-2002, 20:16

do the Frenche get Lancers too, or are they Spanish exclusive?

insolent1

11-21-2002, 21:44

The best shock unit cost wise & techwise in the game are gallowglasses. They are cheap & I have yet to see any flee the field even though they have low morale. JHI are probably the best all round shock troops. I have used JHI extensivly with max weapon upgrade & they are killdozers. I have seen them annilate every other unit in the game. I have only seen them take significant losses from the following units varangian guards, gothic foot knights & gallowglasses. All I can say if you are gonna build JHI make sure you produce them in an iron province. I had one JHI general that was rank 9 with the utterly fearless vice his attack was 19 anti cav attack was 21 & defence was nearly as high. Btw he actually by himself surpressed a rebellion. It was something like 1400 v 58 his unit got 900+ killz & only lost 14 men. JHI rule they have excellent morale(grand mosque aswell) excellent anti cav, armour piercing, armoured, disclipined & most important of all they are fast....they outrun peasants. Btw I never use double click to attack I double click the ground behind teh unit that I want to attack & they don't stop till they get to the point that I commmanded them to go to this normally leaves the unit that they are charging through obilterated. All I can say is try with them with max weapon & armour upgrade. I used to play catholic factions only now I only play as the turks. Btw the mongols are to scarred to attack my lands because of the JHI

Spetulhu

11-21-2002, 22:13

I seldom use any of those http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I just don`t like dragging along troops I can`t refill anywhere except my capital and, perhaps, one other place. Much better to stick to basic troops even if I have to bring along a few more.

Doge Vitale

11-21-2002, 22:16

I prefer Kataprachts cause their kinda cheap, and if you get the armour smith up and going in constantinople they are easily the match of any knight.

Katasaki Hirojima

11-21-2002, 22:20

Chivalric Men At Arms THey rule. *L* I use them, Halbariders and cavalry heavily. Except when playing Russia.

Vlad The Impaler

11-22-2002, 01:04

1.vikings:D
2.gallowgases

Hippolyte

11-22-2002, 03:16

Teutonic Knight, Lancers are exclusive to the Spanish.

Just curious insolent1, what difficulty are you playing? You provide some great advice but those casualties you reported for your JHI leader are absolutely ridiculous (I am not suggesting that you are being misleading just that I find such an outcome incredibly difficult on expert setting). You mentioned in another thread how the game has become too easy and I'm wondering if this will happen to me as well? I am playing on expert and am slowly grinding my way towards a domination victory, s-l-o-w-l-y.

insolent1

11-22-2002, 07:25

I playedthe game on hard the first time I started a campaign, since then always on expert. There is very little difference between easy & hard(apart from quality of heirs, ship captains, starting money & morale). That JHI unit was valour 9, if you have ever used JHI's much you will know that it dosen't matter even if tehy are surrounded they are just killing machines with weapon upgrade & especially at that valour. If you really wanna try out the JHI properly over a long period try the mod by poorstudent its called medieval plunder you get JHI at teh very start & just mod rum to have Iron & watch the carnage. btw they even work well in the desert without armour upgrades as they start off with 5 armour

insolent1

11-22-2002, 07:44

Actually i will descibe the battle

It was a sunny day in portugal the rebel army consisted of 2 saracen infantry & about 1200 peasants. I placed my general(the only unit) on a small hill. The enemy marched up in a very wide formation. THe AI gneeral was behind a unit of peasants in the centre. When they got close I double clicked the ground behind where the AI general was. The JHI charged down through the first unit of peasants(leaving only 1 or 2 alive) & smashed into the generals unit killing him instantly. All the surrounding peasants fled . The rest of the army put up a bit of a fight(it was very funny seeing 1 unit surrounded by mountains of white clothed peasants & afterwards the ground was covered in them) but not much the only real fight my generals unit got was off the saracens & only 1 or 2 of them escaped alive. I ahve suppressed countless rebellions(peasant ones) with tiny armies as all factions but probably the maddest ones where as the polish on expert late I took prussia first turn & suppressed 10 years of rebellions with just my kings unit, a heirs unit & a unit of polish retainers. Peasant rebellions are very very easy to suppress the only unit I hate to have in a peasant rebellion are muratibin infanrty as they are fast & take a long time to catch even with cav

insolent1

11-22-2002, 07:48

btw my generals unit was in 2x30 formation for almost maxium killing power

Hippolyte

11-22-2002, 08:34

They are a superb unit; obviously devastating against rebels.

Rosacrux

11-22-2002, 10:29

Insolent

Are you talking post patch? Because post patch ALL the rebellions I am going through are hardly peasant rebellions: They have also many spearmen, militia, militia seargents and archers, sometimes it's like 50% spearmen, 30% peasants and 20% the other three unit types.

Pre patch most peasant revolts were just peasant revolts with a spear or two thrown in, so I guess your massive slaughter was pre patch.

Michael the Great

11-22-2002, 14:30

Quote[/b] (Vlad The Impaler @ Nov. 21 2002,18:04)]1.vikings:D
2.gallowgases
AAArghh...nice 2 see thy back here.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
JHI are very nice..especially post patch,when they can maximize their charge bonus,right??

Michael the Great

11-23-2002, 18:50

Yeah,I like Gallowglass too,they have a great charge.
Seems like Gothic Foot Knights are one of the best infantry in thy game....maybe even THE BEST...but still,i prefer them coz their heavier armoured and will put up much more of a fight than gallows...altough they're sooooo slow... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

The Last Emperor

11-23-2002, 19:43

For me the cheapest is the gallows coz i like to use the English and they can give u more than what they cost. For the expensive choice, its chivalric knight with golden plates on they. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Vlad The Impaler

11-23-2002, 22:17

actually instead of those german heavy inf i like more the janiissaries ( all of them ) ; seems to me more versatile

G0THIC-Lobster

11-24-2002, 02:20

Quote[/b] (insolent1 @ Nov. 21 2002,14:44)]The best shock unit cost wise & techwise in the game are gallowglasses. They are cheap & I have yet to see any flee the field even though they have low morale. JHI are probably the best all round shock troops. I have used JHI extensivly with max weapon upgrade & they are killdozers. I have seen them annilate every other unit in the game. I have only seen them take significant losses from the following units varangian guards, gothic foot knights & gallowglasses. All I can say if you are gonna build JHI make sure you produce them in an iron province. I had one JHI general that was rank 9 with the utterly fearless vice his attack was 19 anti cav attack was 21 & defence was nearly as high. Btw he actually by himself surpressed a rebellion. It was something like 1400 v 58 his unit got 900+ killz & only lost 14 men. JHI rule they have excellent morale(grand mosque aswell) excellent anti cav, armour piercing, armoured, disclipined & most important of all they are fast....they outrun peasants. Btw I never use double click to attack I double click the ground behind teh unit that I want to attack & they don't stop till they get to the point that I commmanded them to go to this normally leaves the unit that they are charging through obilterated. All I can say is try with them with max weapon & armour upgrade. I used to play catholic factions only now I only play as the turks. Btw the mongols are to scarred to attack my lands because of the JHI
ERR...i did see em flee the field in 1 game when i use em to shock attack a unit of chivalic knight...but after a while they flee

LordKhaine

11-24-2002, 10:02

My gallowglass units tend to still be on the field after several fights (by which time theres usually only about 12 of them left).

Major Robert Dump

11-24-2002, 11:58

ghazi....

I'm like the bastard third cousin no one likes...

Michael the Great

11-24-2002, 18:24

Quote[/b] (Vlad The Impaler @ Nov. 23 2002,15:17)]actually instead of those german heavy inf i like more the janiissaries ( all of them ) ; seems to me more versatile
Janissaryes are the Turkish elite,and they can defeat most other infantry unit,they are also the best polearm/poleaxe unit,and they are VERY VERSATILE...they are fast,have bonuses vs cav and have armor pierceing,and have got a quite decent defence(altough they aren't that heavily armoured,must be the shield,btw,what kinda shield is that they're wearing?)....they'll mow down most heavy cav...if not all...oh,and another thing,they got a good charge,unusual thing for poleaxe troops(just look at the charge of Chivalric Foot Knights or Haldbardiers).....and great morale....of course,all these things....for a (big) price.....
BTW,why are all of you voting for Kataphraktoi?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
I mean,Lancers seem great,just what makes Kataphraktoi so good for u? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Michael the Great

11-24-2002, 18:26

Quote[/b] (Major Robert Dump @ Nov. 24 2002,04:58)]ghazi....

I'm like the bastard third cousin no one likes...
I like ghazis too,altough I can't figure out,how a unit such as them can have that high charge?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
(They fight with maces)

Leet Eriksson

11-24-2002, 18:57

Quote[/b] (MonkeyMan @ Nov. 09 2002,12:08)]I'm yet to try jan heavies post patch, my opinion of them pre patch was that they were outmatched by even average catholic infantry, and seemed to die far too quick to really be a hardened elite.
heavy janissaries can kill almost all types of catholic infantry the excpetion is footknights,cavalry are dead when they move against janissaries(tried all types including lancers and gothic knights).but gothic foot knights imo are the best infantry there is.

Vlad The Impaler

11-24-2002, 20:21

hey Michael The Great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
i agree with u about Kathapaktrioi; maybe this happend because many of us play byz in the early when that cavalry is very effective

Michael the Great

11-24-2002, 20:24

Quote[/b] (Vlad The Impaler @ Nov. 24 2002,13:21)]hey Michael The Great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
i agree with u about Kathapaktrioi; maybe this happend because many of us play byz in the early when that cavalry is very effective
Yup,and just look at that price,Lancers got... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Leet Eriksson

11-24-2002, 20:47

Lancers come at 1100 pre-patch,i don't know post-patch.but they are good against all types of non-spear units.

Katasaki Hirojima

11-25-2002, 06:12

Yep, Kataphraktoi are easy to get, very cheap and hit very hard. Sure they're slow, but still faster then infantry.

G0THIC-Lobster

11-25-2002, 14:10

Quote[/b] (faisal @ Nov. 24 2002,13:47)]Lancers come at 1100 pre-patch,i don't know post-patch.but they are good against all types of non-spear units.
Not varagian guards. of course if the flank em they will win.

cart6566

11-25-2002, 15:03

Well, I only play Catholic factions (so far) so I had to go with Chiv Knights from the choices presented. However, I seem to end up using billmen or halberdiers with weapon/armor upgrades to break a formation. Gallowglass/Vikings are kinda like a bomb, one use only. With the bills/halbs, you get 2-3 uses, merge the units (with upped valor) continue. Try these guys as shock sometime, the AP works great

einar

11-25-2002, 16:15

Varangian guard.

and then, all the infantry-cavalry units from the orders, hospitalliers, templars, santiago, teutonic...

Leet Eriksson

11-25-2002, 17:58

the love the varangian guards but they disappear after the byz hit the late period http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif byz are very well suited for early rushes as varangian guards are nearly unstoppable

einar

11-25-2002, 18:29

The Boyars are a great shock unit, too. And they're a multipurpose unit...

Leet Eriksson

11-25-2002, 19:35

sipahis of the porte are better than boyars,the main problem lies in their numbers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif they have only 20 and their effect when going for ranged combat sucks,i think boyars are still very good...

Leet Eriksson

11-25-2002, 19:44

Oops i was proven wrong...boyars are better than sipahis,but if you get 2 sipahis and bully them a bit they will eventually beat the boyars(i say this will need some modding as 20 sipahis are not enough.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/redface.gif )

Michael the Great

11-29-2002, 21:51

Chivalric Knights r cool 2,just form them in to a wedge and charge...
Oh,btw,do u tend 2 use the wedge more often now with the patch???

G0THIC-Lobster

11-30-2002, 07:07

I now have to change my mine..... i think ghazi are good too in flank attacks. In 1 game i used em to flank a unit of knights and guess what.they kill 18 of em in 1 charge. But i still like katapharktoi but they are too slow to do da job. When they charge, my varagian guards already finished off about 32 chivalic knight. When the kata charge...BTW 2 of em got killed by a routing knight.

Michael the Great

12-01-2002, 18:03

What I like about this,is that.while Lancers may be the best shock units,Gothic Knights will beat them 1 vs 1 because of the armor pierceing(hence those cool maces)...

Grifman

12-02-2002, 14:12

Of the ones you listed, I love upgraded gallowglasses . . . but you should have included Varangian Guards - other than SAP, they are the best I think.

Grifman

TenkiSoratoti

12-14-2002, 13:22

Chivalric knights under right circumstances are unbeatable

Krasturak

12-19-2002, 04:34

Gah

Krast voted for the Krasturakian Cavalry, they have the best name.

Gah

ICantSpellDawg

12-19-2002, 07:39

i just love gallowglasses cuz they are irish, but i think they are sooo cool

Swoosh So

12-19-2002, 14:11

Lancers are the best and youd be a fool to think otherwise http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Waits on the stoning to begin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif eek

Spetulhu

12-19-2002, 22:39

I`m not much for shock yet, but I`ve started using some while playing Egyptians. Ghazi just die a lot, they`re not useful to me. Abyssinian Guards seem to die a lot too. I`m more impressed with the Mamluk and Ghulam Cavalry. They can hit hard and hopefully retreat before they get caught in a melee that they won`t win. Besides, cavalry is so much easier to move into attack position... Yesterday I used two units of Mamluk Cavalry to exterminate some Knights of Santiago once they were in trouble with my Saracens.

rpasell

12-19-2002, 22:48

how about the old elctrodes to the testicles http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Oh --not that kind of shock eh?

rpasell

12-19-2002, 22:54

Quote[/b] (LordKhaine @ Nov. 10 2002,02:29)]Can't beat Irelands best for some cost effective carnage. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
i agree, some kerns off to the side charging with gallowglasses do serious damage. I had a unit of 40 Fuedal Knights going after some Kerns, the Kerns took out 10 Knights before I reached them.

Katasaki Hirojima

12-22-2002, 06:16

I like Nizari http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif...no one suspects the archers... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif *Grin*

SuperTimo

01-01-2003, 01:06

Lancers are my favourite. During my first Spanish campaign I built so many of them that I ran out of money. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The Marcher Lord

01-01-2003, 22:38

Still love the cataphracts - over a resonable charge distance the momentum they build up makes them unstoppable and being heavily armed they brush off most missiles too. A bit slow to get going though. If they turn up as mercenaries they must be practically indestructable unless handled poorly.

kataphraktoi

01-02-2003, 13:27

Kataphraktoi for me obviously....
They look like tanks when they move and when they charge they make a nice sound as they grind the ground beneath their armoured body. I tweaked with the description of the kataphraktoi so when you right click for information on they say;

"The fearless Kataphraktoi has a long military tradition since Roman times, both man and horse are heavily armoured in mail, lamellar and scale and armed with a lance, bow and a deadly mace for smashing into enemy ranks, though slow and heavy their charge is devastating A dangerous and fearsome foe on the battlefield.

similar to the original one but this one makes them menacing.

If only the MTW fellas would make the kataphraktoi look like they really do.

Shahed

01-02-2003, 13:53

One mind. Any weapon.

Michael the Great

01-04-2003, 01:11

Hi there ppl,I've been away for a while..let's see...well,Lancers are the best post-patch when ya put them in thy wedge(considering that u don't charge'em in to those damn pikes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

Michael the Great

01-04-2003, 17:02

Quote[/b] (SuperTimo @ Dec. 31 2002,18:06)]Lancers are my favourite. During my first Spanish campaign I built so many of them that I ran out of money. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Yes lad,that's teh way to do it...... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Exile

01-04-2003, 20:08

Quote[/b] (Spetulhu @ Dec. 19 2002,15:39)]...Ghazi just die a lot, they`re not useful to me. Abyssinian Guards seem to die a lot too...
Indeed. The Muslim infantry has low defense, the Ghazi's especially so. Their high attack rating makes then deadly when attacking an enemy in the flank or rear, but they can't stand and fight as well as Christian heavy infantry can due to low defense. On the other hand, they are quite cheap, so you can make up for it in numbers.

I space my lines with Saracens to engage the enemy, then I charge my Abyssian or Ghazis through the gaps in my formation or around the flanks. I haven't mastered the muslims yet tho, I have a hard time with Christian armies which contain many elite units.

Michael the Great

01-04-2003, 20:31

Well,usually low defence units don't have too much armor so they're fast,and u can get much easier round the flank and rear to charge.
On the other hand,heavy units like Lancers and Kataphraktoi are not that good for flanking coz they tire fast with all that armor on them,so they have to charge frontally,in fact they are made for frontal charges,but the problem is when all they have in front is a line of pikemen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

kataphraktoi

01-05-2003, 14:15

Quote[/b] ]On the other hand,heavy units like Lancers and Kataphraktoi are not that good for flanking coz they tire fast with all that armor on them,so they have to charge frontally,in fact they are made for frontal charges,but the problem is when all they have in front is a line of pikemen

Only if you don't place them carefullyy and time their charges, ive had many succesful flanking attacks leading to the final demise of the enemy army with the kats.

Michael the Great

01-05-2003, 14:34

Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ Jan. 05 2003,07:15)]
Quote[/b] ]On the other hand,heavy units like Lancers and Kataphraktoi are not that good for flanking coz they tire fast with all that armor on them,so they have to charge frontally,in fact they are made for frontal charges,but the problem is when all they have in front is a line of pikemen

Only if you don't place them carefullyy and time their charges, ive had many succesful flanking attacks leading to the final demise of the enemy army with the kats.
You seem to be right,but I,as the Turkish player,will turn these guys into dogfood in desert regions(just ask my camel warriors what they did to the Kats of the insolent byzantines when they invaded Rum,haha,TOTAL CARNAGE&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

kataphraktoi

01-05-2003, 16:11

Quote[/b] ]You seem to be right,but I,as the Turkish player,will turn these guys into dogfood in desert regions(just ask my camel warriors what they did to the Kats of the insolent byzantines when they invaded Rum,haha,TOTAL CARNAGE

Camel Warriors? Oh you mean those smelly things that my servants clean off under my horses hooves, now I know what you're talking about. Time the charge and the Kats will do their job just fine against the camels whether in desert, temperate or lush conditions.

Strange the desert conditions don't effect my Kats.

When I play a campaign the first target are the Turks, I as a Byzantine player respect factions who can fight unlike those latin dogs in the west and their petty :royal knights" and I respect the Turkish military but by no means fear them. I return the compliment as I make pigfood out of Turkish carcasses strewn on their precious deserts.
Pigfood nonetheless but a good fight they put up undoubtedly.

One thing I don't like is the Janisaary Heavy infantry but I dispose of the Turkish empire before the dirty dogs steal Christian children and turn them into soldiers of Islam and defile the sacred imperial territories of the Roman Empire.

Rum is ours, Rum means "Rome" signifying the previous ownership but by no means renounced entitlement to Rum province or more correctly Cappadocia.

Onward kataphraktoi we shall liberate the poor souls under Turkish oppression, we will gladly relieve the Turks of a burden called life and send them to God faster than a scimitar can cut butter.

Once again.... a worthy enemy the Turks are.

Michael the Great

01-05-2003, 18:45

What?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
U insulted my camels.....Allah shall punish u for thy foolish words muhahahah

kataphraktoi

01-06-2003, 14:16

Quote[/b] ]What??
U insulted my camels.....Allah shall punish u for thy foolish words muhahahah

Spoken like a true Turk

Heres mine
Holy MARY, mother of God?
U dare speak such profane words of the Kataphraktoi, envy of the East, terrible wrath of God, may the Chalcedonian God of the Romans convert you into an Orthodox Christian
hehehehe

Swoosh So

01-06-2003, 14:19

Lancers or most hvy cav that can actually gallop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Ie not katophractoi

kataphraktoi

01-06-2003, 16:30

The curse of being heavily armoured

But that is no comfort to the enemies I've trampled and the widows my Kats have made.

[/QUOTE]Lancers or most hvy cav that can actually gallop Ie not katophractoi[QUOTE]

Michael the Great

01-07-2003, 20:45

Well,fact is that I've been playing 4 a very short time with the turks,I especially like the early and late campaigns,and in the late I can crush teh byzantes quite easily http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I DO hope that we will see cav charging with lances and fighting with melee weapons in RTW,what do u think,any possibility of that happening in R:Tw????

Asmodeus

01-08-2003, 16:44

I really like playing the Early game and the Gallowglass has to get my vote. A horde of very angry two-handed sword weilding Irishmen makes a formidable impression on any front line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Even better if you can charge spearmen in the back - you cut through them like a knife through terrified butter http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I also love the Vikings and Clansmen and with a few armour upgrades and good morale they are all still effective throughout the later game IMHO.

Michael the Great

01-09-2003, 21:28

I think some charge stats consider the morale of the nit.
For example,Muhwaid Foot Soldiers have an irrisistible charge,but they are normal spearmen,so how can u explain the high charge other than their unbroken morale to charge on to anything?

kataphraktoi

01-10-2003, 14:11

Same here I like early campaigns, the Turks feel the force of the Byzantines early when I play the Romans and I let them know it when I capture their Sultan and slay him like a common dog instead of getting some ransom money. For good measure I impale the Sultan's head on a lance and ask my soldiers

"10,000 florins for a Turkish dog's head?"

and they say

"what are we that we can afford a dog's head on a meagre salary from Byzantium's deep coffers of gold but we are happy to loot the carcasses of the Turkish infidels and take back what is rightfully ours" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Michael the Great

01-10-2003, 21:46

Ok ok,so can u plz explain why Kataphraktoi are BETTER than Lancers??????? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Michael the Great

01-12-2003, 16:28

Btw,I've just tested CMAA(Valor1) Vs Vikings(Valor1).
The Vikings were very close of winning,in facy,the initial charge killed 20 MAA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
But they lost eventually,the CMAA coming on top to the end of the battle...

Leet Eriksson

01-12-2003, 20:40

Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Jan. 10 2003,14:46)]Ok ok,so can u plz explain why Kataphraktoi are BETTER than Lancers??????? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
Becuase katahraktoi are cheaper and 2 of them(that are cheaper than one lancer btw)can decimate a unit of lancers.just use one of them to hold the lancers and the other to flank.

Edited:btw the crown fits as a toupee subistute,aswell as covering my baldy head http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Michael the Great

01-15-2003, 21:55

What about Gothic Foot Knights,not eough shock from them eh? just pure melee really http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Michael the Great

01-17-2003, 12:43

The reason why ppl put their shock units on the flanks is to charge after the line of spears holds the enemy down.
If u put ur shock units in front,leading the charge they might do a nasty blow but will eventually get pushed back.
For example,if u charge ur Gallows frontally,they will get beaten after the charge,I just saw 100 of them taking on 70 militia sargents frontally....after the charge,the gallowglasses got hammered http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Michael the Great

01-17-2003, 19:47

What about axe shock troops??
I especiallylike Woodsmen,having the highest charge out of any other axe units.
Tough I wonder why is that happening? they have a charge factor much higher than heavy varagian guards or vikings http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/redface.gif

Michael the Great

01-19-2003, 01:09

right now,Vikings are ahead of Lancers by 3 votes...I can't believe this http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Acronym

01-19-2003, 01:16

I prefer janissary heavy infantry. They seem to have good shock and can melee for a long time. I once held back 2 armies for a very long time with one line of them, only lost when then enemy sent his cav behind me.

Michael the Great

01-20-2003, 22:22

I use Janissary HI vs cav,wich they slaughter

Putchuco

01-20-2003, 23:13

I'd probably say: Kataphr. AND Verangian Guards,
although I haven't played them myself yet.
But the hard time the AI (Byz) gave me (as Turks)
with them was pretty good, finally some good AI opponent

I had to train hard and smash them with a combined
Horse Archers surrounding and Gazi Inf + Arm Hvy Cav
attack from all sides.

Gaius Julius

01-21-2003, 06:18

Have to say so far, Kataphraktoi.
I know they're not very fast, but if you're close enough to the enemy; for a charge up the rear, they're devastating.

Michael the Great

01-21-2003, 22:44

Well,as for axemen,any1 preffer those woodsmen?(look at that charge&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Michael the Great

01-26-2003, 20:26

How do u use cav for charging? I group a few units together THAN I charge...

Michael the Great

01-27-2003, 21:04

Quote[/b] (Gaius Julius @ Jan. 20 2003,23:18)]Have to say so far, Kataphraktoi.
I know they're not very fast, but if you're close enough to the enemy; for a charge up the rear, they're devastating.
Khazarwian cavalry have the same stats as Kataphraktoi,only that they got 6 charge.
Wonder who'll win in a direct confrontation(I think I'm gonna test this...)

Michael the Great

02-05-2003, 18:41

Round 2 comin' up.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Leet Eriksson

02-05-2003, 21:03

tried a khc against a kat,the kat wonwith a bit of micromanagement you can defeat a kat with a khc.but head on,kats win but with somehwat heavy losses.

DemonArchangel

02-05-2003, 23:54

ok, i live and die by my varangian guardsmen (drools)
oh btw 2 (individual) vg's can take out 120 woodsmen easily. But Kathas rock, and they eat catholic MAA for dinner. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif. But someone didn't mentions PA's or gothic knights, what's with that.

P/S: Lancers SUCK, except in SP.

Akka

02-06-2003, 00:54

VARANGUIAN

They are just awfully powerful http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I was in a battle against Mongols. A whole army of heavy mongol cavalry, on a bridge map.
One single unit of Varangian was able to mow down more than 300 heavy cavalrymen, starting from one end of the bridge to finish on the other end, making a nice carpet of dead corpse, and losing less than half of their men in the operation, while being peppered by archers.

They are just unstoppable http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif