+ to Arbalesters/Crossbowmen/archers

[Ryttare]

Say that u are playing a custom battle, or MP battle. Then u can add valor, attack and defence to your troops, does this have any effect on Arbalesters/Crossbowmen/archers ?? If yes, what does it do.

[Mihai Viteazu]

The main thing is that they don't run away so easy, because they have a better morale. As far as I know, every level of valour adds 2 levels of morale.
They also have a slightly better attack and defence if engaged in hand to hand combat.
However, this has nothing to do with the way that they shoot their arrows, to my best knowledge.

[Rowan11088]

I thought valor affected accuracy. Raising valor on artillery affects accuracy/power/whatever it is that makes it end up killing more people. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same for archers.

[Ryttare]

Anywhere i can read about this?

[HopAlongBunny]

Look in Table of Contents http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

There is a good discussion in the ToC.

The influence of valor on missle fire seems pretty mixed. There was a good discussion of it here once, but I can't remeber the topic name http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Basically some ppl swear by it, others think valor has little impact on missle fire http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Ryttare]

I did a lil' test. The settings were att Expert.

I had a unit of Passive Arbalesters with valor 4.
The enemy had a unit of Passive Arbalesters with no increased valor (0).

The map was steppe so no height advantage.

Result:

55 killed, 4 deaths. No arguing about that valor is good for arbalesters as well.

[Swoosh So]

Expert level gives ai units combat bonuses and extra morale, all tests should ideally be done on normal.

[Silencer]

yes,

valour has effect on acuracy, but they have to be 5+

Do a test

peasants verus longbows

put longbows on val 1 then put them on valour 6.
The longbows will kill many more before the peasants close in and in less time.

[el_slapper]

During my last bridge defense(as danes), I had 4 units of arbs. 2 level 0 beginners, 2 level 1 beginners(made thru master bowyer). At the end of the battle, the level 1 were level 2. Level 0 did remain level 0

That is not accurate, & I should do more tests. But it seems that it has an effect.

[Ryttare]

swoosh>>> the test was done on expert just to show how outstanding v4 arbalesers are. Even with combat bonuses they dropped like flies.

[Sainika]

Valour greatly increases accurasy. Once I was attacked on a bridge map by a huge Egyptian army. I have 2 units of arbalesters and a 9th star general. Because of a general' stars my 0-level arbs have +5 in valour. During the battle TWO UNITS of arbs (120 men at all) killed 360 enemy soldiers - SIX FULL UNITS If they were 0-level they'd kill much less. Their accuracy was fantastic.
The answer is clear I think.

[el_slapper]

Sainika : bridge defence is huge for arbs, when position is good. My level 1 guys killed more than 150 for 60, my level 0 arbs more than 120 for 60.

But it remains that an effect on ranged weapons is probable.

[Kraxis]

Puzz3D and I did some tests unrelated to each other before the patch.

My test was 10 times as V0 Archers firing at V4 Pikemen (100 men, 1 Armour, close formation and good Morale from the V4), and 10 times as V4 Archers firing at V4 Pikemen. All tests were conducted in good weather, any rain or wind and that particular test was scrapped, all tests were waited out until the archers had spent all arrows.

The results were rather surprising as the V0 Archers averaged a higher killrate than the V4 ones.

[Kraxis]

Ok, I did a new test. This time for V0 Arbalesters and V4 Arbs.

They faced V4 A3 Order Foot on a Steppeinland under Arid conditions.

The V0 Arbs averaged in 10 tests: 53.43 kills.
The V4 Arbs averaged in 10 tests: 60.29 kills.

That would indicate the V4 are better, but they had on an average the same kills as the V0 Arbs but had 2 tests where they killed more than 70, where the V0 had a fluke of 37 kills. Taking those out of the equation the results are like this:

V0: 55.75 kills
V4: 57.21 kills

That is a much more equal result and is in reality the same. Thus one can conclude two things depending on which results you take as the best estimate of correct results.
Firstly the Valours does make the Arbs better but certainly not enough to warrent the increase in cost.
Or the Valours does not increase the accuracy of the Arbs noteworthy.

[HopAlongBunny]

Thank you for the tests Kraxis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Puzz3D]

There is some increase in accuracy with increasing valor, but it is apparently a very small increase. The reason for this was given by LongJohn in a post he made back in Sept or Oct. In original STW, there was a small but noticable improvement in kills by archers as honor was increased. LongJohn was not with CA for a period of time during the developement of WE/MI. When WE/MI was released the accuracy of archers had been increased, but the size of the improvement to accuracy from honor was not. The result was that the bonus to accuracy was relatively less in WE/MI than it was in STW. This has carried over into MTW since LongJohn did not go back and readjust this aspect of the game.

It would be nice if the ranged weapon effectiveness got noticably better with increasing valor. I think this is what most players expect to happen, and it would be great if LongJogn could take another look at this, but I fear that it's just too far down on the list of things to do.

[Kraxis]

Puzz thanks for that info, I remember being able to notice the increased effectiveness of the SA in STW as they got better and when they were under a great general such as Kenshin.

Well I would be satisfied with the proper increase in RTW, and I would love for it to return in VI, but I doubt it...

[Tyrac]

Well, that answers very well the questions I had. Thanks.

[Kristaps]

hehe, out of 'nothing to do' i carried out 40 tests of the following nature:

1) 100 archers V4 versus hordes of peasants on a flat steppe map until arrows run out: 10 tests

2) 100 archers v0 versus hordes of peasants on a flat steppe map until arrows run out: 10 tests

Conclusion: the same average kill rate for both (the difference was negligible in the favor of v4 archers) implying no significant accuracy improvement with higher valor for missile units... what a disappointment ;(((