uh..........

[Rowan11088]

I ended a year, fought some battles, ya know, the usual. Then 4 provinces have peasant revolts. I think, wait, those provinces were green, with plenty of loyalty, what could be the problem? I reload (after saving a new one with the later game, I'm not going to play the older one), and see that they're all still green.....most with 120% loyalty or more...what's with this???

[ichi]

Rowan:

Look in the thread in the Main Hall titled

Sudden catastrophic loss of loyalty

Could be that your Daimyo - oops sorry, old habits - King is cut off from the revolting provinces, could be that you attacked/declared war on someone that the revolting provinces like, could be a famine or other catastrophe, or maybe your King or Generals got nasty vices that crashed happiness.

ichi

[Rowan11088]

But that wouldn't even be the point...if that were the case, loyalty would go down, but rebellions shouldn't occur until a turn has passed with territories below 100% loyalty. The whole point of a loyalty percentage is that you know when and where rebellions are coming...if it happens mid-turn without a warning ahead of time, those percentages are useless.

[Exile]

in the other thread that was mentioned there's a post about loyatly being artificailly high the first turn when loading a game. As far as why the revolts happened, some event occurred which lowered happiness - could be a multitude of things. - King's V&V, King's proximity, threat from another faction, etc. or it's a bug, which is doubtful.

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Rowan11088 @ Feb. 11 2003,17:40)]I ended a year, fought some battles, ya know, the usual. Then 4 provinces have peasant revolts. I think, wait, those provinces were green, with plenty of loyalty, what could be the problem? I reload (after saving a new one with the later game, I'm not going to play the older one), and see that they're all still green.....most with 120% loyalty or more...what's with this???
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif Unfortunately, the reload does not tell you what the loyalty was before when you played the turn... "HUH?" you say. That's right, it won't give you the same numbers because there is a "save/reload" *B*U*G*. No, I'm not smoking crack, I went through this same thing myself a few weeks back. Actually, I can tell you with pretty good certainty that your actual loyalty in some provinces was well below 100% if you only had 120% from the reload. This bug is probably responsible for many of the "out of the blue" rebellion problems people see (they can't see what went wrong because the reload is lying to them.) An additional problem is that people get lulled into thinking loyalty is great after reloading a save, and after the *next* turn their 100-150% loyalty provinces will plummet if they take no action. Note, it actually will not allow revolts if loyalty is 100% on the "end year" after reloading the save--so saving and reloading can be used to obtain "artificial/cheesy" loyalty boosts. But the next turn things are calculated properly again... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

It's a neat little bug, and causes lots of confusion.

[Elmo]

I'm sure CA will fix it in Vikings. Of course we'll all have to _pay_ for the fix. Not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif So here is how I look at it:

King: So, how's it going down there?

Governor: Great Your Excellency No problems. Everyone is as happy as a pig in $hit. Literally.

King: Good man. Carry on then.

[A.Saturnus]

I had peasant revolts coming out of the blue too, and I`m sure that the loyalty was above 100% because I checked all my provinces the year before the revolt and none had below ca. 120%. It`s simply so that - especially in just conquered provinces - loyalty above 100 is not a garantee that no peasant revolts occure.

[Brutal DLX]

Actually, 120% isn't that high to begin with, I try to make sure that all have 160% or somethign in that range. I never had such revotls take place. Perhaps I'm a good pacifier http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

Sometimes it just happens.

Had a revolt in Corsica once; over 500 troops in province, had owned it forever and was 200% loyalty. Hit end-turn and it "sprouts" about 3000 hobilars and peasants. I had loads of units nearby so it turned into a "slaughter for valour" opportunity, but I have no idea why it happened in the first place

[Brutal DLX]

HopAlongBunny,
I think Giljay explained once that those kinds of rebellions have nothing to do with loyalty, but I don't remember details anymore. Could be religious or about the "faraway king"...

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

It seems to me that the program just decides that it's time to spice things up a bit. I just abandoned Corsica last night when, with 200% loyalty, it disgorges two full stacks of archers, spearmen, & hobilars. It said something about the garrison being small. I didn't have the troopps available to take care of it so I removed my garrison to Tuscany & destroyed the Corsican port.

The reason I say the computer decides that it will do something is an experience I had earlier last night. I had attacked all the Spanish shipping that was blockading my trading routes; the pope immediately excommunicated me, & the HRE respawned with a message about the rebellion having to do with my excommunication. While what I did next was cheesy, I just didn't want to deal with it after having recently re-exterminating the Italian: I reloaded to right before I attacked the Spanish. I removed the attacks & ended the turn; the HRE respawned anyway, with some message about small garrisons. That was ludicrous because the one province of mine that they attacked had a stack & a half beseiging a rebel castle

[burma_mtw]

There is another line on the "Loyality = xxx%" screen. Goes something like "There is a xx% probability of a revolt this year..." (or something like that). Are you getting revolts when the probability is zero percent? I sort of thought that the only thing one had to worry about when the probability of revolt was zero percent was a Civil War. Could be wrong.

Maybe I am wrong here, too, but the only negative that I have seen when Excommunicated was that your "turn-the-other-cheek" Christian friends will Crusade you. Never seen King Influence go down or Loyalty go down. Oh, yeah...the Piety Crosses get busted and you cannot Crusade.

[Exile]

I believe prov happiness decreases in proportion to the zeal when you are excommunicated.

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Mori Gabriel Syme @ Feb. 14 2003,10:07)]It seems to me that the program just decides that it's time to spice things up a bit. I just abandoned Corsica last night when, with 200% loyalty, it disgorges two full stacks of archers, spearmen, & hobilars. It said something about the garrison being small. I didn't have the troopps available to take care of it so I removed my garrison to Tuscany & destroyed the Corsican port.

The reason I say the computer decides that it will do something is an experience I had earlier last night. I had attacked all the Spanish shipping that was blockading my trading routes; the pope immediately excommunicated me, & the HRE respawned with a message about the rebellion having to do with my excommunication. While what I did next was cheesy, I just didn't want to deal with it after having recently re-exterminating the Italian: I reloaded to right before I attacked the Spanish. I removed the attacks & ended the turn; the HRE respawned anyway, with some message about small garrisons. That was ludicrous because the one province of mine that they attacked had a stack & a half beseiging a rebel castle
I've only seen the "garrison too small" once and that was early in a Danish campaign--province was Sweden I think. It was a tiny partial unit garrison I believe. Loyalty was OK before that. Wouldn't be surprised if castle size other upgrades were a factor in the frequency of this.

As for the HRE respawn. I suspect the problem there is that it was a rebel province. After a faction has been wiped out you need to clean up any rebels quickly if they are in the faction's former territory or they will respawn. Sounds like time expired for you. Perhaps you let an heir survive? In areas that were formerly the property of another now absent faction, I kill the leaders when I capture. The hope is that this reduces faction re-emergence. I'm not getting re-spawns in my territory. However, I don't conduct long seiges of rebel lands (two turns max). I also suspect that if you recently captured a rebel territory and there is a respawn nearby, that you might get a rebel army. I can't point out this happening in my own play except for the appearance of the Horde in Khazar being accompanied by a message about a rebellion in my province of Georgia joining the Horde (then at 200% loyalty.) The Horde often appears in both so I'm not sure whether it was a rebellion, or just the Horde.

Honestly, I wish there were more random small rebellions to put down. The huge rebellions should come from ignoring loyalty/influence/religion, etc. like they do. But smaller random ones would keep me on my toes and have more historical precedent. Superstition should lead to minor rebellions at times for unpredictable reasons: the appearance of a comet, etc. The game is great, but having some more random bad events would make it more interesting.

Disease isn't enough of a factor and really doesn't effect gameplay. I could even see trade routes/ports and both your ships and others carrying disease around. If you had an outbreak of the plague in Genoa then it might not be a good idea to send your King or best general there or to trade with a diseased port that year... It might also be advisable to not move an infected army to another of your provinces until the disease is eradicated. Large armies should be prone to disease... Would be interesting to see disease moving in waves through provinces. Might be a bad idea to invade a diseased province with your best army. Seiges should cause disease at times.