Kataphraktoi vs Swiss armor pikemen

[TheViking]

I had Kataphraktoi attacking enemy SAPs, in wood both uphill and downhill, my Katas had between 5-7 in valor and the SAPs had 2-4 in valor, my Katas won both the uphill and downhill fights, both in woods.

Now my question; Shouldnt the SAPs have won even if they only had v2 against my Katas v7, at least in the uphill fight??

only few times my Katas was losing

[Lord Of Storms]

The way you describe the batttle uphill ,downhill in the woods leads to a few different modifiers, the uphill positon who ever holds it gets a +2 to attack I think that spear/pike units get no rank bonus if in the forest, then you have positional bonus if flankng or rear attack and the unit fighting downhill will also get a penalty depending on height so that is a lot to factor in and lots more that will determine the outcome .

[MonkeyMan]

I'd go along with that, it's the fact you were in woods that's important. SAPs rely on their high rank bonus to really damage an opponant. So the SAPs in woods lost a lot more than the Kataphrakoi in the woods.

[pdoan8]

I agree. SAP rely on rank bonus to win, but they lost that in the wood. Cav have some difficulty in the wood, but I guess that didn't hurt them as much as the SAP.

[Heraclius]

In my experience kataphraktoi are almost unstoppable head on with any unit. Even a flank attack by spears can usually be absorbed and repulsed. In my mind, especially in the early and high periods, kats are the best heavy cavalry unit in the game.

[TheViking]

sorry for bad explanation, it was 2 fights in one battle, on a wodden hill.

the four units involved, before reinforced arrived, was 2 katas V5-7 against 2 SAPs V2-4, my first unit of Katas attacked uphill against the enemy SAP, my second unit was going around the fight to attack the rare, but it didnt come that far, cus the enemy had another SAP unit hidden in the forest and intercepted (or how you say in english), and made me attack that unit instead downhill, it was more like a slope almost flat.

I already knew that the Katas are almost unstoppeble, so i thout i should give them an ultimate challenge, and the pulled it of.

The only other units i met that have stopped my Katas was Halberds, (havnt met Swiss halberds or Billmen yet). All other units they have crushed.

[LordKhaine]

Quote[/b] (TheViking @ Feb. 20 2003,19:02)]The only other units i met that have stopped my Katas was Halberds, (havnt met Swiss halberds or Billmen yet). All other units they have crushed.
Don't bother with Swiss halberds, they get cut to shreds by even FMAA.

[Red Harvest]

The reason the Kats won was valour. That is a huge mismatch in valour. Did you have better armour as well? Try a custom battle on "normal" setting with V2, A2 Kats vs. V2, A2 SAP's in flat terrain. I did this once in the clear, once in the woods. In the clear the SAP won easily with NO casualties. In the wooded combat Kats immediately went into the timber and they did a little better--they managed to kill 5 SAP's.

Valour is the biggest determinant in combat.

[A.Saturnus]

Valour is the reason why Katas are so highly prized. Byz generals have usually high command and that makes the Katas so unstoppable. From their stats, they`re decent but not invincible. With the same valour Chiv Knights win, are quicker and cost less. Even Persian cav is - considered the prize - more valuable.