Aragon, tough faction to play...

[Red Harvest]

Been playing as Aragon in Early with Almughavars modded in for Aragon. That is a tough faction to win with The province is nice, and Navarre is easy to take, but you are sandwiched between Spain, France, and the English with limited income (no trade). I've tried it twice and *LOST* both campaigns (gulp.) No reloads or cheesy tactics--took my lumps as they came. First time I tried to take out the Spanish after they utterly failed to deal with the Almohads. Problem was, the Almohads were then too strong to handle with only a few provinces under my control. High star generals with almohad urban militia were impossible to beat head-to-head with unit types then available. The next time I worked with the Spanish to oppose the Almo's by bribing Portugal and using it as a forward base, and by liberating any sieges against the Spanish. This made Portugal a magnet for Almo attacks but allowed the Spanish to prevail against the Almos. Problem was that after three assaults I lost Portugal to the Almos, then I had to face the Spanish after they finished smacking the Almos. Throughout I lacked the money and number of troop making provinces to follow up on my successes. I'll have to try this another way. Perhaps I'll smack the French around next time and leave the Spanish and Almos to their own devices. (I would target the English in France for positional reasons, but the French are always at war with everyone else and rarely accept alliances, so I shouldn't hurt my diplomacy too badly by targeting the French.)

Hungarians were not easy either in early despite deceptive appearance. The provinces are terrific and income is great, but it is decades before a metalsmith is available, and you are landlocked by opportunists. I lost the first time because I chose to attack the Byzantines after the Turks weakened them, and that set off a chain reaction of unprovoked (and sometimes suicidal) attacks on me by Italy, Poland, Turks and the HRE. I thrashed each in turn, eliminating the Poles and Byzantines, but never could get a break. Italy was the decisive problem as their navy allowed them to sieze Serbia or Croatia from the rebels and it was a massive thorn in my side. Their were just too many Italian armies to defeat to fight on two other fronts as well. The Byzantines are very dangerous in Early and have fantastic generals...but they lose to the Turks through strategic incompetence (retreat rather than fight.) 2nd time around I'm winning because I took provinces to target the Turks as soon as they began plundering the Byz. I made sure Italy did not get a toe hold. Tag teamed Turks with the Byzantines and took Constantinople for my own. Doing quite well despite having a "chinless wonder" one star first heir that has "crack brained" first born. Both sets of heirs have had the worst set of dullard/crazy vices for all the offspring I've ever seen (and I thought my Italian heirs were bad.) It's tough to win battles when your generals/heirs are mostly 1 or 2 star.

I can only imagine how difficult the Swiss will be...

[Monk]

Red Harvest do not neglect Velencia to the south of Aragorn. Navarere, and Portugal can fall easily to bribes aswell.make sure u have an alliance with France, England, HRE and the Italians. (all possible Threats ) now wait. sooner or later the Spanish will atempt to eradicate the Almohads. when that happenes u gotta attack. in their weakened state u may be able to take Castile, or even Leon. if u can Hold either of these then you should be fine.

[BDC]

I modded Aragorn to have some tradeable goods, made the income early on playable and meant that there was some fiscal point in having a navy.

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Monk @ Feb. 19 2003,14:48)]Red Harvest do not neglect Velencia to the south of Aragorn. Navarere, and Portugal can fall easily to bribes aswell.make sure u have an alliance with France, England, HRE and the Italians. (all possible Threats ) now wait. sooner or later the Spanish will atempt to eradicate the Almohads. when that happenes u gotta attack. in their weakened state u may be able to take Castile, or even Leon. if u can Hold either of these then you should be fine.
Problem is as soon as you attack Navarre, Spain takes Valencia (every time&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I'll have to try Valencia first some time... If you attack Spain, you strengthen the Almo's, but Spain usually can't beat the Almo's alone since they launch impotent crusades at Cordoba that sap their own strength away. Portugal merely creates a big sucking sound in my income for a decade or so when I need the money. I've taken Valencia after Spain allowed a revolt but it was too little, too late. I took Castille and Leon as well but could not hold them vs. the Almo's. The almo urban militia is the coup de grace. On expert with their +2 morale bonus and typical 7* general the AI has, my 3 or 4* general can only hope the Almo's don't attack until I get armour... The AUM run rough shod over everything this early in the game.

It is a challenge...and I like challenges. Poland looks easier now...

[burma_mtw]

Red Harvest, Sir. Is there any way to get ahold of Aquatain while the Spanish and Almohads are beating each other up? I am not that good and have only figured out how to win a Campaign only if I can Trade. Aquatain could give you some income. I don't think that I could win with Aragon, Navarre, and Aquatain but a better player might. Good luck

[pdoan8]

I won't hesitate to bribe both Navarre and Valencia to make a good start.

In the South, I will help the Spanish against the Almo. Hope that we both survive. At least, send relief force to help them lift siege.

I will turn my main strenght up North and look for a good opportunity. The English and the French will fight each other. Soon, one of them would be excommed. I will take that opportunity to expand. Launch short distance crusade to either Aquitaine or Toulouse. Short distance crusade to the excommed neighbor's land is the best way to get land and improve the King influence (if you don't consider that as cheesy). It would be nice if I have Aragon, Navarre, Valencia, Aquitaine and Toulouse to start building up.

When I strongh enough to go further, if Morocco is still under the Almo control, it would be a nice target for another crusade. After that, I may consider to go further into the North Africa desert toward the Egyptian. Risky, but it has to be done sooner or later if I want TD.

In Europe, The English, The French, The HRE, The Italian and The Sicilian are often get excommed. I will take the opportunity to crusade and get more land.

Well, that was how I did in my Spanish campaign. it might work in your Aragonese campaign too (but harder).

[Divine Wind]

Crusades can be a valuable way of "acquiring" troops and good provinces in which you can get tradeable items and make some money.

[Monk]

actually in some of my sp games the Spanish have completly destroyed the Almohads. i witnessed this as the Egyptians. before long the Spanish Kings were knocking on my door in North arfica.

[Foreign Devil]

It can really go either way. I've seen both the Almohads and the Spanish win out.

As for Aragon, I've not played them. I think I'll wait for VI to come out. Then I'll get to use all the new units. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif This has probably been asked a dozen times, but will there be anything for Aragon? I know they plan to give Sicily and Hungary units, but I don't know about Aragon.

[burma_mtw]

This is offered only as food for thought. I have not played the Argonese.

Playing at Expert Level is there enought money to bribe Navarre and Valencia, upgrade to Crusade level, build A Crusade,pay Unit support costs for Crusaders, seige relievers, revolt preventers, and attackers/defenders?

There is no implied criticism or skepticism. I honestly do not know.

[Galestrum]

Perhaps you should follow the strategy that medieval Aragon actually did in history.

Aragon had great influence in Toulouse, Burgundy, Corsica, Sardinia, & Sicily. Go for a Southern France & Mediterranean Trade Empire, while the Spanish & Almohads slaughter eachother.

I have made a mod where more of western europe is "rebel" factions to represent how weak both the French and HRE really were. I know in my mod games, Aragon tends to do exactly what they did in history and they become a very nice faction to deal with.

I am sure in the normal version, as long as you keep allies around you, that you should be able to do something similar.

[Foreign Devil]

Burma, you raise a very valid point. With only one provence, you would probably find that with a few bribes and constant constuction and unit production, that even 10000 florins will be spent in fairly short order.

But hey, it all adds to the challenge.

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (Monk @ Feb. 19 2003,18:59)]actually in some of my sp games the Spanish have completly destroyed the Almohads. i witnessed this as the Egyptians. before long the Spanish Kings were knocking on my door in North arfica.
That is what happened in my current game. The Spanish and Almohads were going back and forth in Spain for awhile, but eventually Spain chased them out. After that, war broke out again between the two with the Almohads temporarily gaining a foothold in Spain. War erupted for a third time when the Spanish declared a crusade for Antioch(which decided it would travel through Almohad territory, although it never reached Antioch), and the Spanish ended up pushing them out of Spain again. A combination of crusades and regular forces eventually destroyed the Almohads. Spain now controls all of North Africa, and borders my territory(England) on the Sinai.

Quite a comeback for the Spanish actually, they looked like they were on the verge of collapsing for awhile there in Spain.

[Bhruic]

Ok, I decided to try out the Aragonese and see what happens...

First year, right off, I took all my army to Navarre. Thanks to skillful attacking (ha&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I lost only 4 horse from my King's unit, which of course "grew" back. Pumped out urban militia and bowmen from Aragon. The English moved a lot of their army north from Aquitaine about 4 years later, so I attacked - they ran, I took the province. After another 4 years, I attacked Anjou, same story. Stopped there and began to consolidate. The French attacked the English. The Germans attacked the French. The Italians attacked the Germans. The Germans got excommunicated. Feeling left out, I attacked the Germans in Toulouse, they ran. Held the province. Have over 10K florins at present and have built up all provinces (except Toulouse) nicely. The only downside is the Germans got re-communicated (?) and launched a crusade southbound. Need to figure out a clever way to let it through, but not have the german army follow.

Still, I'm holding 5 provinces with decent armies. I'm tempted to try and make peace with the Germans and attack Spain right now, most of their armies are south attacking (and winning) against the Almohad. It seems that the answer to the Aragonese is swift attacks and taking advantage of everything you possibly can.

Bh

[Brutal DLX]

Personally I haven't had trouble playing with the Aragonese and Hungarians. It's pretty much an opportunistic approach everytime around.
I do use spies sometimes though, I don't consider it cheesy, if you aren't building 50 or more of them. As for Aragon, maybe you should enable crusades for them, so that they can take Valencia and possibly Granada, while the Spanish fight for Portugal and Cordoba. Taking Portugal is a very bad idea because of loyalty problems there. Take it only after you secured the rest of Spain. Expansion to Toulouse and Aquitaine is also an excellent idea. When I played as the English, I did it the other way around, conquering Navarra, Aragon and Valencia, because I didn't want to wipe out France too soon. ( I was allied with them anyway)

[powdermonkey]

[/QUOTE]I can only imagine how difficult the Swiss will be... [B][I][QUOTE]

I found the swiss to be very easy - their heirs all come out as 5,6 and 7 stars, and the units are 166 SAP's
This means that with just a few extra troops, the swiss can steamroller the French very early.
You just have to take Burgundy ASAP, coz the money you get from Switzerland alone couldn't buy an ice cream, never mind an army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Brutal DLX]

I don't like to play as the Swiss, they are supposed to be neutral after all. And personally I have no interest whatsoever to create a "Swiss Empire" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Besides it's a lot like Aragon, only less money to start with, but superior troops.

[A.Saturnus]

Originally the Swiss weren`t so neutral. They were very aggressive and attacked the French and Milan. Only after a decisive defeat (don`t remember the place - somewhere in Italy) against the Landsknechts, they gave up their ambition for a Swiss Empire.

Edit: It was Marignano

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (burma_mtw @ Feb. 19 2003,23:41)]This is offered only as food for thought. I have not played the Argonese.

Playing at Expert Level is there enought money to bribe Navarre and Valencia, upgrade to Crusade level, build A Crusade,pay Unit support costs for Crusaders, seige relievers, revolt preventers, and attackers/defenders?
No. As you have surmised a crusade makes no economic sense early on for Aragon on expert. There is not money for all of that. And if you built a Crusade as Aragon where would you send it? You aren't ready to take on the Almo's that early.

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Bhruic @ Feb. 20 2003,01:44)]Ok, I decided to try out the Aragonese and see what happens...

First year, right off, I took all my army to Navarre. Thanks to skillful attacking (ha&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I lost only 4 horse from my King's unit, which of course "grew" back. Pumped out urban militia and bowmen from Aragon. The English moved a lot of their army north from Aquitaine about 4 years later, so I attacked - they ran, I took the province. After another 4 years, I attacked Anjou, same story. Stopped there and began to consolidate. The French attacked the English. The Germans attacked the French. The Italians attacked the Germans. The Germans got excommunicated. Feeling left out, I attacked the Germans in Toulouse, they ran. Held the province. Have over 10K florins at present and have built up all provinces (except Toulouse) nicely. The only downside is the Germans got re-communicated (?) and launched a crusade southbound. Need to figure out a clever way to let it through, but not have the german army follow.

Still, I'm holding 5 provinces with decent armies. I'm tempted to try and make peace with the Germans and attack Spain right now, most of their armies are south attacking (and winning) against the Almohad. It seems that the answer to the Aragonese is swift attacks and taking advantage of everything you possibly can.

Bh
I can see how that would work. I've not ever used the "attack-with-everything, leave-your-capitol-defenseless" ploy before. The AI shouldn't let us get away with something like that... However, the AI does this itself with regularity...oh well.

You essentially used the "move North" strategy that was next on my agenda, but took out the English rather than the French. I've had 10K in the bank that early before as Aragon, but burned through it too rapidly with only two provinces.

I think I'll give the "move North" strategy a try, but I'm not going to do the 1st turn "attack with everything" move. That is one of those quirks in the code and I'm going to attempt not to exploit it. I will attack a few moves sooner than before though, LOL.

Interesting the Spanish are winning this time for you vs. the Almo's. I suspect it is because you headed North with your armies and the Spanish had fewer concerns about you attacking them, giving them more latitude to attack the Almos in force. One thing I've noticed is that whatever faction I play, the factions on my border stack armies near me, but leave too much undefended in other quadrants. So playing as the Aragonese the Spanish end up in passive-aggressive mode and get beaten by the Almo's while they keep an eye on me. If I play as the Egyptians the Almo's usually get stomped by the Spanish. When I'm the French the Almo's usually stomp the Spanish...

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (powdermonkey @ Feb. 20 2003,06:19)]I found the swiss to be very easy - their heirs all come out as 5,6 and 7 stars, and the units are 166 SAP's
This means that with just a few extra troops, the swiss can steamroller the French very early.
You just have to take Burgundy ASAP, coz the money you get from Switzerland alone couldn't buy an ice cream, never mind an army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I tried the Swiss in "Late" last night. I'm doing pretty well although the start was shakey. Not having tried this before, I targeted the HRE as the biggest threat. I had a hard time getting and holding a second province to establish a foothold/get some cash. Pikemen are great and the heirs are impressive, but without ranged units I had a problem when 2000 HRE attacked my small force. Had to use pillage mode for awhile to get enough money. Then the silly Poles decided to attack me just as I was getting a little momentum. But now I have Flanders and the HRE are about to disappear.

Probably would have been better to hit the French first.

[Lord Of Storms]

I modded to play as the Swiss in Early and had some fun I like the SAP'S and the King and Heirs have decent stats money is a bit of a problem but you can play with those values in the mod to make your campaign supportable I have taken out the French and the entire HRE in past campaigns but gave up for now I am giving the 69 new unit mod by Lord Krazy a try.

[Bhruic]

Quote[/b] (Red Harvest @ Feb. 20 2003,10:13)]

I can see how that would work. I've not ever used the "attack-with-everything, leave-your-capitol-defenseless" ploy before. The AI shouldn't let us get away with something like that... However, the AI does this itself with regularity...oh well.

You essentially used the "move North" strategy that was next on my agenda, but took out the English rather than the French. I've had 10K in the bank that early before as Aragon, but burned through it too rapidly with only two provinces.

I think I'll give the "move North" strategy a try, but I'm not going to do the 1st turn "attack with everything" move. That is one of those quirks in the code and I'm going to attempt not to exploit it. I will attack a few moves sooner than before though, LOL.

Interesting the Spanish are winning this time for you vs. the Almo's. I suspect it is because you headed North with your armies and the Spanish had fewer concerns about you attacking them, giving them more latitude to attack the Almos in force. One thing I've noticed is that whatever faction I play, the factions on my border stack armies near me, but leave too much undefended in other quadrants. So playing as the Aragonese the Spanish end up in passive-aggressive mode and get beaten by the Almo's while they keep an eye on me. If I play as the Egyptians the Almo's usually get stomped by the Spanish. When I'm the French the Almo's usually stomp the Spanish...
Actually, the AI let's us get away with it for a very good reason - simultaneous turns. The computer doesn't and shouldn't know that we've done it until it's already done. The next turn, it might see my empty capital and try to attack (although it's no longer empty, since I did produce something there), but even if it does, I can move back to defend it at that point. That makes it a valid strategy (if a risky one, if the computer does choose to attack your main province for some reason, you're screwed), not a "quirk in the code".

I chose the English rather than the French simply because they had a much weaker presence. If you can co-ordinate with the French (which I did, to some degree) and eliminate them from the mainland, you go back to an automatic state of neutrality with them, which is quite nice.

The Spanish seem to be doing so well because of their Crusades. They sent one south to attack the Egyptians, but it, of course, had to try and get through the Almohads first. Once at war, they then sent a second crusade at the Almohads themselves. At this early stage, 2 crusades are extremely powerful, the Almohads didn't stand much of a chance.

I find that the computer generally wants to have a parity of forces along any border. If you don't make much effort to build up (and they have no plans to attack), they don't seem to either. Works for me, I don't want to have to waste troops guarding areas when they could be off fighting.

Bh

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Bhruic @ Feb. 20 2003,18:09)]Actually, the AI let's us get away with it for a very good reason - simultaneous turns. The computer doesn't and shouldn't know that we've done it until it's already done.

The Spanish seem to be doing so well because of their Crusades. They sent one south to attack the Egyptians, but it, of course, had to try and get through the Almohads first. Once at war, they then sent a second crusade at the Almohads themselves. At this early stage, 2 crusades are extremely powerful, the Almohads didn't stand much of a chance.

I find that the computer generally wants to have a parity of forces along any border. If you don't make much effort to build up (and they have no plans to attack), they don't seem to either. Works for me, I don't want to have to waste troops guarding areas when they could be off fighting.
Actually, from what I and others have seen it is only pseudo simultaneous. The AI *will* alter it's moves somewhat depending on what you do in that turn. There were some rather long discussions about it. It is still not clear to me exactly how the rules of this work, but it is not entirely simultaneous.

Are you saying the Spanish had 2 crusades going at once? That would be overwhelming...and it would also be a bug. Crusades are very double edged. If they don't succeed they often deplete the Spanish and leave them very vulnerable. When the crusade fails it often prompts rebellion or civil war. It does give some superior troops early on.

The parity issue is true AI vs. the human, not so much AI vs. AI. The human is a wild card and the human's strategy dictates how effectively the AI deals with other AI opponents, at least on expert. Even when I don't attack them, the factions near me tend to suffer disproportionately from pillaging by the AI on their other borders.

[Bhruic]

Quote[/b] (Red Harvest @ Feb. 20 2003,21:52)]Actually, from what I and others have seen it is only pseudo simultaneous. The AI *will* alter it's moves somewhat depending on what you do in that turn. There were some rather long discussions about it. It is still not clear to me exactly how the rules of this work, but it is not entirely simultaneous.

Are you saying the Spanish had 2 crusades going at once? That would be overwhelming...and it would also be a bug. Crusades are very double edged. If they don't succeed they often deplete the Spanish and leave them very vulnerable. When the crusade fails it often prompts rebellion or civil war. It does give some superior troops early on.

The parity issue is true AI vs. the human, not so much AI vs. AI. The human is a wild card and the human's strategy dictates how effectively the AI deals with other AI opponents, at least on expert. Even when I don't attack them, the factions near me tend to suffer disproportionately from pillaging by the AI on their other borders.
Well, yes, you are correct, the AI will take advantage - however, I play the game as if I expect it to be simultaneous, and if the computer chooses to "cheat", well, that'll help make things more challenging. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Actually, it's not a bug - when the Pope demands a crusade against another faction, you can launch a crusade against them even if you already have one going.

Yes, that can be the case, but usually it's a result of the computer trying to match your forces. As long as I'm not the strongest, I generally don't worry about fronts with people I'm allied with, I rarely get "backstabbed".

In the current game, I made peace with the Germans. The Spanish killed the Almohad, so the German crusade died - a few German provinces rebelled. I was building up to attack the Spanish, but decided I'd snag a rebel province while I was at it. A German uprising occurred, so I was back to war with the Germans. During all this time, the Spanish have been great neighbours, doing all their fighting in the south, and leaving quite weak forces along my borders.

Bh

[Herodotus]

I've got an incredible game going at the moment as the Aragonese (high period). I started by bribing Navarre for quite a reasonable sum, then I started developing Aragon and building some troops. I sent these troops and mercenaries on sorties to Valencia which made it have a bigger uprising of rebels. Valencia then became an excellent stone on which the Spanish and the Almohads blunted themselves.

I then took Valencia at an opportune time, and Spain lost control of Castile soon after during the hight of their war with the Almo's. Of course I did not waste the opportunity and Castile was mine. Leon went rebel a while after and that to was added to my province list. The relentless drive southward of the Spanish meant that soon Cordoba also fell to rebel hands and then into my own.

Now I was making a decent amount of money, the Spansih had wasted themselves taking out the Almohads and were now left only with Granada and Morrocco.

By now I had started building up Spain and categorizing its provinces to what troops or ships or agents they would build. But money was not ample and it was then that the Egyptian ships started arriving, ports were constructed and trading posts to maximise money from imports. Leon was the first ship building province and among the first ships was Aragons greatest Naval commander.

Soon a small trade flourished with the English, Germans and French all importing Aragonese goods in the Channel and North Sea and the Egyptians importing goods from around the globe to Spain. The money was now available to start building a larger better army and to expand the Navy to eventually compete with the Egyptians.

Meanwhile a surpising turn of events was the death of the Spanish King, it was the end of the faction but instead of going rebel about half of the Spanish Kings forces went with an Almohad comeback which occured the very next turn.

The situation now was basically a cold war which continued for about 100-150 years. Myself trying to play catch up in the Navy (dependent on trade with Egypt) while knowing that the Egyptians were generating vaste amounts of money from ruling such a large empire and having me to trade with was adding to their purse every turn. I resolved to not ally with Egypt and to stick with my small allies.

I built tons of assassins, bishops and cardinals and sent forth the religious men, they had a profound effect on the Egyptians every turn i would watch them pulling troops away from massive invasions to quell potential rebellions.

I now knew my strategy for my future war with Egypt, I would build a massive Navy (approximately two ships per sea square) bought with Egyptian trade money, then I could make some big cash for awhile so that i could build my army into a large high tech force. Knowing that the outbreak of war would mean inevitable debt i spent like a madman on castles and men and a more ships.

The strategy for the actual outbreak of war was A: To stack my ships in strategic sea aquares to limit the mobility of the Egyptian army. B: create a diversion by attacking Egyptian held Britain (masses of mercenaries a few slightly old troops and a good commander). C: To wait for the main Egyptian assault and to watch their Empire fall to pieces (from lack of Navy connections)

I am still at this stage and it is panning out quite interestingly the Naval war was a success for the most part, although they manged to slip a massive army into Valencia, the army their was ill prepared (set up for bridge warfare) and was beaten after a brave stand.

The next turn I countered victoriously , but they had attacked with another army into cordoba so my victory did not turn into the route I had hoped for, I then beat them out of Cordoba, and back into Africa.

[Red Harvest]

Replayed Aragon Early last night using the strategy of: 1. Attack Navarre on the first turn using every man available. 2. Attack the English as soon as possible. 3. Hit the Spanish, French or Almohads after that depending on conditions.

Everything happened as expected. The Spanish seized Valencia before I could shift troops from Navarre (bribing is not possible when you start with no emissaries...) The Spanish always time this to be one move ahead of your building forces.

As soon as I had built up a little I took on the Hobilar armies of the English in the French countryside. I was on an aggressive schedule and the English decided to fight the whole way so my limited number of spears got me into trouble as I was headed toward Normandy. The huge French peasant/archer/urban militia armies with great generals just watched without hitting either of us.

I continued my farming/building program and began accumulating new FMAA units in Aquitaine where the Spanish couldn't see them. Since I kept only a minimal presence on the Spanish border, the Spanish felt secure forming a crusade and attacking the Almo with every single unit they had...fools. After giving the Spanish a few turns to move farther south and after checking with my princess to make sure Cordoba didn't have a large army, I moved my hidden army to the front. The AI managed to assemble a full stack of obsolete units in Castile to meet my army when I invaded on the following turn, but the AI retreated before my high quality force without even taking the field. My defensive border force then invaded Valencia. It's 1117 and there are a few Spanish in Cordoba, and more than a stack in Leon (mostly peasant). Leon will be next, then Cordoba.

Looks to be pretty much won: Finish off the Spanish so that the Almo's can't make any head way. Then either target the Almo's (then Egyptians) *or* build up and wipe out the French.

[burma_mtw]

Something to think about. I haven't seen the AI code so, as usual, this is just speculation. Some games give you easy access to the AI code. Maybe this one does. Anyone know?

When you hit the "End the Year" button, the AI kicks in with lots of "IF" statements (I assume). One sees the "Thinking" message. If the "Then" results are based upon things like "Number of Troops in Adjacent Province" the question is, "Does the AI use a variable value loaded during this year's 'Thinking' or last year's 'Thinking'?" It may actually use the former for some decision logic and the latter for others. Don't know.

Sometimes I will sit next to an enemy Province for a number of years only to have the enemy move troops in at exactly the same time that I attack. My unfounded conclusion is that the AI uses "This Year's Variable Value" in that case. If the AI logic always uses "Last Year's Variable Value" the game would be "Simulated Simultaneous Move".

Does that sound right or am I experiencing the effects of a misspent youth in the 60's?

[Red Harvest]

My best guess about the strategic (not tactical) AI code is that it is rather simplistic. This is a VERY complex game so writing a strong AI would necessarily be quite involved. Games like this have far more complexity than chess (and I'm a rated "expert" class chessplayer with an Expert Class North American correspondence chess championship to my credit.) The number of possible permutations and combinations of units and moves in this game is staggering.

One of the reasons I don't think the strategic AI is overly complex is how short the "thinking" time is. This leads me to believe the AI can only see one or perhaps two ply deep even if it has some rules. Another reason is that the autocalc seems a bit buggered--esp. with castle seiges. I often seen the AI retreat even though it would make strategic sense to fight and produce attrition. A more complex AI would establish trade routes, put a Byz. ship in the Marmara (sp?), plan naval campaigns against your ships, etc

[Beelzebub]

Can someone post the change they made to Almughavars to make them buildable by the Aragonese?

Just the code I can copy/paste into the crusaders_units file and replace the current one (where they are available as mercs only).

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Beelzebub @ Feb. 22 2003,17:46)]Can someone post the change they made to Almughavars to make them buildable by the Aragonese?

Just the code I can copy/paste into the crusaders_units file and replace the current one (where they are available as mercs only).
To get Almughavars I did the following all in the unit text file using Gnome editor:

1. I set the factions to: "ARAGONESE, FRENCH, SICILIAN, SPANISH". Reasoning was that if any of these locals took the region over, they would be able to make Almughavars as well. They are still available as mercs as well.
2. I set building requirements to "{SPEARMAKER2, SWORDSMITH }" instead of "INN" I might go back and change this second part to SWORDSMITH2 instead of base level since they melee pretty well. One could argue for some sort of BOWYER upgrade instead or in addition.
3. I set the region limitation to "ARAGON" only. (Think that was the default anyway so perhaps I didn't change it...)
4. I changed their characteristics to "DEFENDER, STRONG" from their default "WEAK". This influences placement perhaps usage to some extent by the AI but I haven't worked through it yet. There are a number of other things in cells that can be manipulated to change how the AI uses them without altering base combat stats, but I've not tried to understand all of that yet.

In testing them one on one vs. CMAA on open ground, they lose slightly to the CMAA. However, in situations where they have height and can use their javelins they can damage CMAA enough to kill them in the following melee. I didn't mess with their stats. They are a specialty unit. I like sending them in behind feudal sergeants on bridge assaults. They rain javelins into almohad urban militia, royal knights/body guards, etc. Then switch to melee. I'm still getting the hang of using javelin units in open field battle. Unless you order "hold position" they withdraw...and then sometimes even when you do that they withdraw. I want them to attack cav, not withdraw I don't think the current tactical code handles javelins worth a flip.

[Beelzebub]

thanks.

Yeah I agree the game handles jav units pretty badly, hope they improve it a lot for RTW (seeing as how they were an important part a legionaire's arsenal).

[Red Harvest]

One thing I forgot, you might want to change the "number of kills for valour upgrade" or whatever the cell is called. It is listed as 3 (&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif for these guys. Think I've set it at 2 (need to check that, I intended to move it down a notch, but might have forgotten.)

[Sephiroth]

The key to playing as Aragon is like playing with Denmark.Speed at first and then patience.My solution was to take Valencia and only Valencia for a while, (u get to kill EL Cid).If u take Navarre you become sandwhiched.Not very nice.Your job will be just to sit back and watch for a while.the spanish and Almohads will kick the crap out of each other for a couple of years and the same will go for the english,germans,and French.Valencia and Aragon are very rich provinces so build your economy but make sure to keep fairly large armies in your provinces and rotate them.ie put 1000 here, 200 there and the next year put 400 there and 800 here.that kinda thing.What happens now is pretty simple.In my case the Spanish 'won', as in took back all of spain. but had loadsa problems with rebellions Loyalist and religious for years.At the same time they maintain large large armies in Navarre to balance the threat form the Lrger French armies in Aquitaine.Hence while everyone was being pre-occupied i was looking to the future.I immediately went to Norway and Sweeden and bribed those armies and after a few years of rebellions secured those provinces.After this the key is your navy.Navy may will allow you trade much,Hint:try link up with provinces that hold goods yours dont, this creates imports which are much more beneficial.Secondly a Navy will allow you to take advantage of any rebellions that take place in anybody's elses lands and hence by scavenging your empire grows.Crusades to lands are also nice.But what about my humble Aragonese empire.At the present time the Royal banner of King Ferdinand II flies high upon castles in
Aragon, Valencia, Portugal, Morocco,Egypt, Corsica, Sardinia, Genoa, Milan, Provence, Novogorod, Livonia,Finland, Sweeden, Scotland,Ireland, Norway,Denmark, Saxony, Friesland, Cyprus, Rhodes, Constantinople, and Nicea.the year? 1243 and the mongol empire is awaiting its destruction at the hands of my crusaders http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif .....time for a cigar i think...and wait for an imminent spanish civil war..( on an aside interestingly enough the Germans and French have been split by a line of rebellions stretching from north to south and the HRE is in further disintigration. Only main worries are thos pirate bastards of Sicillians...... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif ...still..have fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif