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View Full Version : How can my Shimazu clan defeat the eventual Hojo Horde?



Nagasaki Nap
08-05-2001, 10:46
Let me start off by stating that this may be the greatest strategy game I've ever played, which is saying a lot because it's my favorite gaming genre.

I've only had the game for a week, but I've quite literally played it non-stop and have played out at least a dozen Shimazu campaigns at normal setting. I started with Shimazu simply because they were the first clan on the choices screen. I plan to play them all, but I'm beginning to wonder if there's some glitch with the Hojo clan. No matter how well I do with Shimazu, by the time my expansion to the east meets up with Hojo, they already have their "horde" of about 10,000 to 15,000 troops stacked up on the border. No amount of economic buildup or military might can defeat that (that I can see), especially because Harima is about as far east as I get before running into them and I don't have the prime real estate that the east offers.

Personally, I think the "horde tactic" is an AI flaw. Makes no sense that Hojo would sit at their border with 15,000 troops and only send in 1,000 at a time.

I finally defeated Hojo earlier today by using a cheap tactic.... I deliberately attacked the province their daimyo was in with an inferior army (300 vs. 10,000... lol). Then at the start of the battle, I sent my own daimyo and his heavy cavalry waaaaaay off to the side and out of sight. As the Hojo army descended on my hapless samurai I circled my Hatamoto around and surprised the enemy Daimyo with a rush attack from behind with my 11 heavy Cavalry.

By the time they knew what I'd done, their daimyo was unable to retreat, and I ordered every unit on the field to focus on the daimyo until he was killed, even if I had to sacrifice my daimyo.

I did this twice, killing the original Hojo Daimyo and then two turns later his only heir. While I succeeded in eliminating the Hojo clan, I felt a bit cheap about it, especially when he had more land, bigger income, and ten times the military strength.

While some would say that I used a smart tactic (I guess I did), it still bothers me that Hojo is so powerful. Seems like there's nothing I can do to stop their "horde" since the Shimazu clan starts so far away.

Any comments on the Hojo AI and horde, and how to defeat them in a somewhat more "fair fight"?

Thanks

KumaRatta Yamamoto
08-05-2001, 13:56
read this tread www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000666.html (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000666.html)

inside you will find a lot of good ideas

HATAMOTOKILL
08-05-2001, 17:43
hi,nap welcome to the mad world of STW.1 thing i would like to say is get the patch 1.12 to improve the game.......it fixes so of those little bugs in the game,which also improve it....... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gifhave a nice day man.kick some ass!!!!!!:P

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/contrib/legionxs/ninja1.gif

Catiline
08-05-2001, 22:11
Welcome to our community Nap. if you've not found the strategy archive yet then that's the best place to go. All the informati0on you need should be there. The thread Kuma has linked to is by far the best discussion of your immediate problem. the hojo horde is a bug based on the fact that the AI gets econonomic advantages to makie pu for it's basic stupidity. Unfortunately this is over done, and when combined with Hojo's cheap castle benefit and the wealthy lands he has result in the horde.

LOL Kuma, bring up thread 666 again why don't you.

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Oderint tum metuant

HATAMOTOKILL
08-05-2001, 23:45
Yes Hojo a mighty clan if left alone,rich farmlands,more koku means more troops i guess?wipe these out as quick as u can.then you'll have all their wealth. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/contrib/legionxs/ninja1.gif

Vanya
08-06-2001, 21:48
One way to beat ole Hojo-meister as Shimazu is to let the Portuguese in and get their guns. You can then stand fast in key defensive provinces and grind him down with lead while you build large attack armies of your own. Eventually, after enough purple warriors have died, all his generals will have negative honor. Wiping them from the surface of the 'Oith' will be easy for you then, as your generals will walk as glimmermen.

jskirwin@yahoo.com
08-06-2001, 22:15
I think it's worth noting the so-called "JoBeare" strategy which the other threads mention. I am going to post it here since I've got it on the clipboard and will be printing it out anyway.

Regards
JK

Annsi: If this is a no-no kill this reply.

The following is JoBeare's post on 1/06/01 on the following thread:

________JoBeare 1/06/01______________
This is my method of playing Shimazu. If you try it and don't succeed try it again. If you think its lunacy, try it anyway. This works for my 99.9% of the time.
Spr 1530 - Start cranking out troops at Satsuma. Pull all of your troops to Bungo except the YA in Nagato and Buzen.
Aut 1530 - Drop your tax rate to very low. Attack Iyo with your combined force. It should total 311. The ronin in Iyo will retreat to Tosa.
Win 1530 - Attack Tosa with everything. One unit left in Iyo should be enough to keep it from revolting. The ronin put up stiff resistance, but they won't have Chosakobae (not sure how to spell) as their taisho so it is very winnable.
Sum 1531 - Storm the castle in Tosa.
Aut 1531 - Take Awa
Win 1531 - Attack Sanuki. The ronin will retreat to Awaji.

By now Mori should have taken Nagato. Imagawa should have taken Buzen and Bungo. I usually leave one YA in Awa and two in Sanuki. Pull the rest of the army back to Iyo and get ready to take back Bungo.

The next "if" is lower case because it usually happens. "If" you get one of your fallen provinces to revolt, go on the offensive. Pull your armies together and drive towards Hizen via Chikuzen (like Black Ship said). Between your original army, the loyalist, and the constant stream coming out of Satsuma, you should be so numerically superior that Imagawa will retreat all the way back to the castle in Hizen. Once Hizen is taken then it's just a matter of mopping up.

Once Imagawa is taken out. Move your army back to Buzen and attack Nagato. I usually get to this point by 1534. Mori usually puts up a fight in one of his western provinces but the rest capitulate pretty easily. Takeda may put up some resistance in Aki but that is about it.

Build up a YA army in Sanuki using a spear dojo in Tosa. Once Mori is engaged in the west try to move into Bizen from Sanuki. Don't fight any battles. Just take what you can get without taking any loses. This should tie up forces in the east while your main army walks over the west.

You should have Mori and Takeda wiped out by 1538. 1542 would be about the latest and 1536 is about the earliest that I've done it. Take a breather here. Oda puts up a lot of resistance compared to the previous adversaries. This is a good time to concentrate on teching up or prepare to go christian. Start bumping the tax rate.

There are a lot of things covered here. I may have glossed over some crucial points.

1 100% of koku should go to troop production. Spear dojo in Tosa is the second priority and the Sword dojo in Satsuma is the third priority. Other than that, no facilities should be invested in.

2 Don't get your daimyo killed. I guess it goes without saying but it is something that you need to keep in your mind at all times. You will be doing a lot of fighting with your daimyo and no heir to take his place.

3 Don't lose Satsuma. Here is another game ender. Give up any of your other provinces to Imagawa or Mori. Most of them are pretty low for farm production and their loss should be more than made up from taking the ronin land.

4 Loyalist revolts happen. Use them to your advantage. By lowering the tax rate you are almost immune to them and you are almost guaranteed of getting free troops when you are attacked. A loyalist army is usually comprised of Samurai including ND and CA (these are priceless). I can't over emphasize the advantage this gives you early in the game. I think loyalist revolts are more likely to happen using 120 man units versus 60 man units. Just a thought.

Good luck

JoBeare
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