Archers???(2deep+3deep)

[HATAMOTOKILL]

archers so these little guys.
so these guys, should they be left in 2 deep or 3 deep?
if say in defence?
or maybe offence?
does it matter?as in 2deep they fire more arrows thous running out quicker.so does this mean more kills in a shorter time?anybody done the test? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
best to leave them in engage at will to cut down on friendly fire.so how do you get the best out of these units?

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
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Archers in 2 men deep are the best as you have best accuracy and are not so weird to manouver around. (not like the weird 1 men deep)

When you want to go h-t-h with them, make them in a row of 4-men deep and attack...simple as that! I like to use wedge too.

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[Hosakawa Tito]

I agree with Tera,also in 2 deep loose formation they have less tendency to shoot each other as sometimes happens,especially if you have to shoot uphill.Also beware moving other units in front or through archers when they are firing,almost always seem to lose a few to friendly fire that way.

[Pussiecat]

whats wrong with friendly fire?? - if i wanna target some monks i target em - no matter who theyre fighting. after all , the dead cost nothing...
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

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[Doragon_Ajidrik]

PussieCat, thinking just like the king in BraveHeart huh. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[Pussiecat]

Aye, think that was only battle english were shown to have won - mustve been tactically sound thinking!!!!

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[Kurando]

I agree 2x30 close formation is best for foot archers.

The only problem with keeping archers 2x30 is that they are very difficult to move if you are forced to reposition your army to the left or right to block an advancing enemy. In such cases a 2x30 line is sometimes streched out so far that it can come dangerously close to the advancing enemy troops.

One thing you can do to counter this is to reposition your archers where you want them to go and just as they start moving quickly put them in wedge formation; then, keep an eye on them using the spacebar and just as they reach their destination click close formation again; thus they will move whilest compact, but dispurse widely just as they arive.

BTW what are your guys theories on formations for Calvary Archers? -I usually go 4x15 close formation anytime they are moving, and then spread them out 3x20 when I get them into position, (sometimes even 2x30 if there are no fast moving enemy units close by).

[HATAMOTOKILL]

hi Kurando!good point http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
so how best to line up cav also? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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genie of the lands!!!
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[neosbrother]

Pussiecat the only reason the english won the battle was becuase there were three clans left the battle without even lifting a sword.

[Hosakawa Tito]

That's a good tactic to move your archers K,do you find yourself clicking like a mad man during the heat of battle?I also like to move my Cav archers in 4x15.I'll spread them to 3x20 or 2x30 to engage.This also helps them to skirmish more quickly when pressed by enemy units.Only two lines have to turn to run instead of four,which seem to bunch up and stumble around,if the last rank gets caught from behind they are all dead meat, because they stay together as a unit so the rest won't run.I try to pair Cav archers with an Ashiguru and or a No-dachi unit.If they are pressed by Yari Cav,Ashi's in hold formation will save them,if pressed by enemy Yari's the No-Dachi will buy them time to escape.I like using the loose formation with the foot archers,but if it exposes their flank by them being too spread out,I'll change to close formation.

[HATAMOTOKILL]

This info been very helpful! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
big thanks to ya all!!!!!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
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If you don't have enough time for changing your 2 men deep archers to 4 men deep, just put them on wedge, get the attacking bonus and then press close formation again while in combat.

It's not good to leave units fighting in wedge, that formation is good for the initial impact.

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[Steeleye]

blaaablaaablaaabraveheartblaaaaaa...blaaablaaaaeenglishlostblaaa....blaaablaablaaa'historical'filmbl aa.....blaaamelgibsonaustralianblaablaaablaaa....blaapatriotblaaa....

Now, what actually matters is that we whupped their arses at Flodden.

One of these days someone's going to come down from Braveheartland and read a history book.

Hell, I'm a miserable old get - someone get me a pint, quick. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Kyodaispan

[Kurando]

Quote I try to pair Cav archers with an Ashiguru and or a No-dachi unit.If they are pressed by Yari Cav,Ashi's in hold formation will save them,if pressed by enemy Yari's the No-Dachi will buy them time to escape.[/QUOTE]

If you are pairing them with slower units why not just use foot archers instead? The only reason that I can see for CA is that they are able to opperate independantly of other units because of their speed, and additionally they are great for chasing down routers and stubborn units near the end of the game. The biggest risk being that if your opponent takes one unit of Yari Cav and uses them effectively then the CA basically become a waste of money.

I wish magy was here to share his thoughts on the matter, but even if he was he probably wouldn't say much.

[theforce]

Totally agrre Kurando. A melle soldier though can pin enemy soldiers close to your amry making the enemy sometimes attack you.

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[Hosakawa Tito]

K:depends if I'm attacking or defending.I would employ Cav archers independently when attacking,as you have described.If defending,I like to use the Cav archers speed out front of my main force to harry an enemy's flank,and cover them with the Ashi or No-Dachi as the Cav archers fall back,and repeat,if my opponent lets me get away with it.An opponent who employs Yari Cav skillfully will make Cav Archers much less effective,can't disagree with you there.

Cavalry Archers have a simple purpose...they're not there for firing at missiles, they are there so you can hit the enemy's good units with them. (CA are very bad versus guns and SA beat them at missile fire because they're more accurate)

Ok...what if my enemy has a YC?

Good question, simple answers, as there are 2.

1) Either always have a YC or a YS to accompany the CA.

2) Get more than 1 CA and send one to each flank...while the enemy YC is chasing off your left CA for example, go and hit with your second CA on the right.

No.2 is used commonly by vets.

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[HATAMOTOKILL]

So it look as if!its best to keep your archers 2 deep!!!!
cav archers 2 0r 3 deep!!!as to skirmish quicker!!!!!!
what about yari c?4 deep??????is this the basic set-up to use.Lord Ted where are yooooooo? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
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Hand to hand troops are all good at 4 men deep formation especially shock troops like monkeys and nods.

Tera

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[Magyar Khan]

just stepped from my cloud... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

mostly i dont reply in long stories cause i have many things to do.

guiding 2 honour 0 horsearcher with 1 h3 or h2 yarisam in a 5000 koku is a good thing to do.horsearchers asks for micromanagement, so at least group the 3 units.

the problem with almost every unit is that the situation determines what the best use is.

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[HATAMOTOKILL]

I see, u must give them some sort of protection to cav archers from the yari cav! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gifoff coarse!!!!!eeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh
if not there dead meat ehhh?

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
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[HATAMOTOKILL]

Web site not bad! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gifby the way Magyar http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
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If the enemy has no YC or some other fast unit, you can get with CA on the enemy flank without protection with a YS or something.

It all depends on the situation. Learning to adapt to certain situations is vital.

When the CA are empty of ammo, use them as fodder behind your muskets so that less background kills on your best troops occur. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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[BakaGaijin]

The advantage to using CA instead of SA and guarding them with Yari or Nodachi/Monks is that, once the enemy Yari come out to engage your CA and then becomes entangled with the foot unit, the CA can then be sent around back to charge into the flanks of the enemy's hapless missile units! Or even his Taisho if he's picked a non-Yari unit for him. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

You could try that with SA, but I doubt the effect would be as great. CA are much faster than their foot counterparts (which means that they're more likely to actually catch an enemy unit on its flank before it can turn to face them) and are better at melee combat, as well (meaning, well... bigger body count!).

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[HATAMOTOKILL]

ummmmmmmmmm???i see,good point......

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