View Full Version : God I'm an idiot!
Heraclius
03-01-2003, 00:47
Playing as the Byzantines early/expert. The game is very young, ten years into play or so. After training a medium sized army of Byzantine infantry, trebizond archers, assorted mercenaries and my emperor and son I decide to try and expand a little by taking Rum. I easily brushed away the troops there and next turn sent most of my army minus the emperor (his son was also a capable commander) into Armenia. I'm sure most of you out there are thinking "idiot, check the province loyalty" That of course was what I forgot to do.
A huge loyalist rebellion of elite gulam bodyguards, futuuwas, turcoman horse etc. I should have pulled out but didn't, afraid of negativ vices. Almost 800 men compared to my paltry 150 (BI, TA and kats). I take out a few hundred of them but I really have no chance. after the battle my emperor lies dead. I retook the province the next turn but the thing that really bugs me is that the loyalty of Rum went down to 88%. 88% does that justify a rebellion of 800.
A few turns before in Naples the loyalty was 90 and I had a peasant rebellion of over 1000 The turn before that the loyalty was 80 and the revolt was only about 400 men. I think CA should try to fix this so that if a province has loyalty of 90 a small revolt should occur but if the loyalty is say 70, there should be a much bigger revolt. Anyone else out there in forum land agree with me?
The PROBABILITY of revolt does not equal the SIZE of revolt. The probability only relates to whether there will be a revolt at all How many men would join with the rebels once it gets started is and should be unknowable. You shouldn't be able to predict, "well, it's only about loyalty 80%. Even if there's a revolt it'll be small so I'll easily be able to deal with it, and I don't have to worry"
Red Harvest
03-01-2003, 08:44
Yeah, the problem here is type of revolt. It is going to be a loyalist revolt. Might even be a religious revolt (wonder if the two could compound?) Loyalist revolts are generally superb units and decently led. Can't afford any of loyalist revolts in the early years of a campaign.
What really annoys me is when these provinicials rebel against their new rulers but have (mysteriously) really advanced units despite no one else in their faction having them. Really annoys me, especially getting Longbowman in Spain and stuff.
kataphraktoi
03-01-2003, 14:22
If ya pull out ya get no vices, its only when you are fighting a battle and chicken out.
Tactical withdrawals are ok.
My kind of strategy for playing Byzantium is never to conquer the world, its no fun, i prefer to rule a certain territory and rule it wisely, then of course harness the greatest army in Europe. This means no lightning advances and n sudden conquest but I'm capable of making surgical conquests when the advantage is there.
Long Live Byzantium.
Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ Mar. 01 2003,07:22)]If ya pull out ya get no vices, its only when you are fighting a battle and chicken out.
Ahhh... but you are wrong...
The general that retreats in face of the enemy army (strategic map) might get the Vice Eager To Retreat... Which might become Very Eager To Retreat. If you call off attacks they might get Hesistant and Indesisive (and the third, worst Vice).
Heraclius
03-01-2003, 17:11
Quote[/b] (BDC @ Mar. 01 2003,07:05)]What really annoys me is when these provinicials rebel against their new rulers but have (mysteriously) really advanced units despite no one else in their faction having them. Really annoys me, especially getting Longbowman in Spain and stuff.
I agree with you completely, BDC. This was then years into the game, yet the revolt was full of high-quality units in a poor province. its ridiculous. GARRR I'm mad.
Red Harvest
03-01-2003, 20:12
CA failed to limit revolt unit selection to units that are available in that period.
kataphraktoi
03-02-2003, 10:25
Srtange Krax, I retreated many times before without one single vice.
My general must be the greatest, no mark on him, not one sword cut, he must the greatest. float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. He must be the greatest.
That's weird. I thought that provinces aren't supposed to rebel when your king/emperor is there. Might have been changed in the patch.
ToranagaSama
03-02-2003, 19:09
andrewt, something must have confused you as that has never been the case.
To the original poster,
Quote[/b] ]I'm sure most of you out there are thinking "idiot, check the province loyalty" That of course was what I forgot to do.
Not exactly, from the moment you said "medium" and then "expand", I knew you were done.
Did you leave any troops to secure "loyalty" when you "expanded?
A single turn and then you "expand" again.
Did you leave any troops to secure "loyalty" when you "expanded?
Gentlemen,
The reason the Devs incorporated these humongous super trooper rebellions is to make you pay a penalty for "Rushing". Without which MTW would not be a "strategy" game but a Race.
The issue here is, inadequate planning and modest knowledge of the game. In addition, after ten turns you cannot have a developed economy. Easy to fix, with a little time spent in the TOC.
You cannot move all or most of your troops from a home province after just 10 turns. You will need from 1/2 to 3/4 stack to maintain loyalty, and don't lose a battle (losing has a negative effect upon loyalty).
You absolutely cannot move all or most of your troops from a conquered province, one turn after conquering it, and not expect rebellion You'll need, for the immediate, a 3/4 to a Full stack to maintain loyalty and forestall a rebellion.
So, to do what you did, you'd need to start out with a minimum of 2 Full Stacks.
1/2 stack to leave at home; 3/4 stack to leave in the first conquered province; and 3/4 to take and hold, one turn later, an additional province.
Check Loyalty prior to your move, check Loyalty after you move.
Just accept that the game wasn't designed for Rushers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ Mar. 02 2003,03:25)]Srtange Krax, I retreated many times before without one single vice.
Ok, the way you put it made me think you used the Retreat to Nearby Province option... If you fight a battle then you won't get a vice.
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