View Full Version : A 180 preception adjustment on the Hashishin
Just when I thought I've seen eveything, this game shows me something new. Before now I ignored Hashishins as an expensive 16 man unit. Might not be nothing new to some, but I couldn't resist sharing it.
Sometime in the late 1200's, I was defending Constantinople against a rather large crusade with my Turkish army of elites. The English Crusade was a double stacker with some surprisingly good units in it. My army of 900 men consisted of the standard Janissary corps, and a 16man unit of Hashishin. I positioned my army on a slight slope between two patches of woods, with the hashers on the far right flank. He's got a 2 star general mine is a 6 star. This is the army's first battle.
Battle begins as a typical line vs line, arrow exchange fire. Suddenly I realize perhaps a moment too late, my Hashers are being charged by a 30(+-) man unit of Knights Hospitaller. My inital reaction was "great, I'm about to loose a thousand dollar (florin) unit". I immedietly made them run back into the patch of woods, where they would have to take it until I could send some anti-cavalry troops.
Well I'll be a house plant. The Hashishins murdered all but 3 of the knights that eventually routed and they only lost 4 guys I would also add, that they did this massacre very, very quickly. So with the 12 remaining, I set them back in position to fire arrows. These 12 guys where in fact killing enemies with thier bows. Then when the meat grinder started, I let them charge into the mass.
When the battle was done, the hashers had accounted for something like 75 kills and lost a total of 5 guys. After I refitted them to full strength they still had a valour of 5 without general bonus. This just after one battle. What of the next battle? Well with the General they will have a valour of 8, which makes them pretty fooking invincible IMHO.
To conclude, my ignorance of this unit for so long, has set off a wave in my Turk/Egyptian strategies for all battles yet to come. I'm still in a state of disbelief and I'll never believe anything anyone ever states about any unit in M:TW. If the unit your using sucks like you say, your just telling the reader that you suck at playing the game.
A.Saturnus
02-27-2003, 20:09
Hashishin are cool. I mentioned that before. I just love to charge them out of the woods and let them kill late royal knights in seconds without losses.
ive always know how good they really are
in an MP battle i had 3 units of Hashishin lined up in front of my army.. all hidden... well needless to say they ripped apart large holes in the enemy line, which my defensive charge exploited.. then you get the enemy routing like nothing else.... Hashishin are good hole eather
Brutal DLX
02-28-2003, 12:23
Yes, just like battlefield ninjas. Those guys have to be killed on sight. If you ignore them, you'll regret that for a long time...
rasoforos
02-28-2003, 12:49
i still havent managed to use them properly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif any tips ?
Three of them eh? Think I will add another unit of them to my main army. It seems like, not sure for certian, but they gain valour very easily and fast. In no time you end up with some inhuman professional decapitators. To those that said from the beginning, they own, I salute.
Kongamato
03-01-2003, 23:37
rasoforos, I would use them to bust holes in the enemy battle line to allow cavalry to get through. With the Hashishin, perhaps Saracen Infantry and Nubian Spearmen are strong enough to hold their own against their European counterparts.
well i use them before i charge.. you always should follow up with a charge if you leave them out front, try make the most of the confusion
Kongamato
03-02-2003, 06:52
It would be very interesting in SP if they were given the ability to be used as strategic assasins.
Leet Eriksson
03-02-2003, 12:06
Never underestimate the hashishin,maybe in the expansion we'll get european battlefield assasins http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
HopAlongBunny
03-02-2003, 13:25
After reading this I had to give them a try. Since I'm playing a Turkish campaign atm it seemed like a good idea http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
OMG They work
Sure they're small, and will be slaughtered w/o support but can they dish it out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Thank you for the advice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
A.Saturnus
03-03-2003, 13:54
Have another cool story about them:
Helped out the Turk against some rebels. These rebels were 800 guys, half Saracen, half Muwahid. Most of the work did my Ghazis and Abyssinial Guards, but on the right flank, the AI attacked a unit of Hashishin with 3 units Muwahid. 180 Spearmen against 12 junkies with swords, guess who won OK, I lost 10 men there, but the enemy lost 99. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
The problem with Hashishin isnt their abilities, it's the fact that they require such high-level specialized buildings to construct.
This in turn means that to get them refitted (you only need to lose 8 men to halve their effectiveness after all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) you must march them back to wherever they were constructed.. meaning a lot of downtime.
Useful as part of a garrison in key areas, but hard to keep in fighting form during a protracted offensive campaign.
Quote[/b] (Daevyll @ Mar. 03 2003,14:09)]Useful as part of a garrison in key areas, but hard to keep in fighting form during a protracted offensive campaign.
Now I have never loved these guys, and I have never hated them either, I have just ignored them, but that has to be the only thing I would never put them at...
They are only 12 guys, they give way too little loyalty and you need 8 of them to get above the Bandit level.
HopAlongBunny
03-04-2003, 08:38
Okay, they do not bad at all w/o support http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I had 3 in one army...sort of lost track of them. When I finally found them again they were out of arrows and in melee with a Kat I'm not sure how long they were at it but the Kat was ready to break, and one Hasher had gone from v0 to v5. Maybe they are just oddball units...BUT fun too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
This is it. Once you got a full unit with a good level of valor, they’re ready to dance with any devil. It’s actually quite easy to do too it seems. As we all know, once the valor is up, they kill things faster, and defend better and I find they last longer because of this. So as battles go on, I’m loosing less of them during each subsequent battle. The upkeep is cheap enough, just the initial cost of training them so I keep a fresh unit ready nearby in a “relief” army. This relief stack has one unit of every type of troop in my main army. After a battle I simply move this relief army in, and refit or re-strengthen the numbers loss in the battle back up to full. This way I don’t have to return my main army to the initial province of training and the main force can continue on conquering away.
I’ve been using them with care mind you. Strictly opportunity units. I’ll keep them on archery duty until a moment arises in the battle, and then let them loose into specific engagements. Usually, then end up slamming into the rear of some other infantry already engaged. The results of course are fantastic.
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 03 2003,15:01)]
Quote[/b] (Daevyll @ Mar. 03 2003,14:09)]Useful as part of a garrison in key areas, but hard to keep in fighting form during a protracted offensive campaign.
Now I have never loved these guys, and I have never hated them either, I have just ignored them, but that has to be the only thing I would never put them at...
They are only 12 guys, they give way too little loyalty and you need 8 of them to get above the Bandit level.
That's why I said 'key areas'. I dont mean some rear province, I mean in addition to say a dozen units of Janissaries in your defensive border strongholds.
In my 'turks' game I have an army like that holding Constantinople against all the crusades etc while my main conquest army is tidying up in Spain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ErikJansen
03-05-2003, 01:19
The Hashishin are truly a fascinating unit, probably the most exotic of them all. I never got to use one in my SP campaigns, but during the time spent online I've worked up at least a basic understanding of how to employ them.
There are currently two zipfiles available at the org dowload section, containing replays of Hashishin used both successfully and horribly during online play. Great fun all of them, even if you don't play MP. Harder to use against a human opponent, but not impossible.
Fear the Hashishin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
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