Favorite Shock Troops-Part II

[Michael the Great]

Highland Clansmen
Nizari
Varagian Guards
Muhwaid Foot Soldiers
Armenian Heavy Cavalry
Feudal Knights
Early Royal Knights
Ghulam Cavalry
Kwazarmian Cavalry
Mounted Sargents

Ok,havent made this a poll coz u can add unis that r not in the list if you don't use these

[DemonArchangel]

ok, it'll have to be varangians/?

[Exile]

I'm not sure I'd consider Muhawid Foot Soldiers as shock troops.

some other popular choices are:
-Katas
-Gallowglass
-Gothic Knights
-Chiv Knights
-JHI

[Red Harvest]

Almohad Urban Militia--for their price and ease to build they are incredibly fearsome.

GallowGlass--they are a lot more dangerous than the Highland Clansmen as I recall.

[econ21]

I haven't crunched the numbers but for sheer cost effectiveness, it is hard to beat Gallowglasses. An 8 charge bonus with an AP weapon. Ouch. They will die but they will take many with them.

And yes, I do think they are overpowered along with several others on the list (and not, eg Woodsmen).

[Nobunaga0611]

Ghulam in terms of cavs, at least from the list. I like Polish Retainers and Chivalric Knights better though.

Varangian Guards as inf. unit. I also like Feudal Foot Knights, but never take them due to their small unit size.

[TheViking]

1. Kataphraktoi
2. Pronoi
3. Varangian guard

[Vlad The Impaler]

varagian guard with no doubt are the best shock troop.

[Leet Eriksson]

Of course i would go for varangians as the best shock troops,but the nizaris should get an honourable mention,becuase they are the best infantry the egyptians can get.while still not as good as men-at-arms when handling spears they can still defeat orderfoot with little or no effort at all

[HopAlongBunny]

JHI without a doubt.

All the benefits of the others and fast

From the list, varagian...easy to produce and almost impossible to stop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Michael the Great]

These results may not appear too much but:
I did a custom battle test on a perfectly flat map with 1 unit JHI vs 1 unit Varagians at equal valor no upgrades and the JHI won by almost 10 men remaining;though the Varagians had an incredible start,butchering the JHI like peasants...but in the end the JHI took control and they won.
So,Varagian Guards are not always unstopable....
Well I have to say that,on another occasion,they were on at a higher ground than my JHI(not a to high ground),but when they charged down,JHI got flattend.
Btw,what do you think of Highland Clansmen,their my current favorite,after I got a superb victory with them at Stirling using their great charge.

[Ligur]

I just routed 40 camels with 5 Gallowglasses. The brave camel warriors were going someplace past my diminished Gallowglass unit that was just sort of hanging out and changing Haggis recipes. Then I had them Gallowglasses charge the camel units flank. RRRRIIIIIPPPP TTEEAARRRRR SLASH they fell down like hay with my completely out of formation Gallowglasses swinging their swords like scythes in the middle of the now confused and spreading camel guys.

A few minutes later I went to see whats going on and 2 Gallowglasses were running after the 11 routed camels left.

So Gallowglass.

[Kongamato]

I like heavy lance cavalry, it has no equal. I prefer to use something with an irresitible charge and a good base attack. Chiv Knights and Retainers/Armenians do the job here.

A special place exists for the Fanatics though. They are the only 100-man fast infantry unit, making them an ideal router chasing curtain when stretched as wide as possible. Also, their impetuous nature means that when chasing routers, they will break formation, independently chasing down enemies without losing morale for it. Plus, they can smother rallied units with their numbers and charge, even gaining valour points after a while.

For a good look at what Fanatics can do when chasing routers, check out the "And then there was Krast" replay. It is an incredibly weird and violent online game on an equally weird map where I first used Fanatics in my army. They killed/captured 204 people.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I like Ghazi infantry, though I have yet to see them emerge from a battle with less than 50% losses.

[Havok]

Quote[/b] ]I haven't crunched the numbers but for sheer cost effectiveness, it is hard to beat Gallowglasses. An 8 charge bonus with an AP weapon. Ouch. They will die but they will take many with them

i couldnt agree more. i freaking love Gallowglasses.
If you hit someone from the back with them its over. i dont care who it is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

They always have a spot in my army when i play the English

[burma_mtw]

Maybe they aren't the best, but in the Early and Middle Periods Ghazi Infantry suit me. They are fast, have a bonus against Armor, and just don't give up. Having been through the Campaign about ten times I am at the point were I just like to play around. Most fun so far was an army of 15 Units of Ghazi and a high rank General's Cav Unit. When the battle started all the Ghazi were moved up close and then ordered to charge. Maybe it was the General's rank or the crazy Ghazi's...I don't know. Didn't take long and the enemy was running away (Parvinis Arbs, Italian Infantry, some sort of Heavy Cav/Medium Cav, some other type of infantry). The Heavy Cav was in units of 40 so they couldn't have been too shabby. Shortest big battle with upgraded enemy troops that I have had so far. I think the enemy General was 3-Stars and mine was 5-Stars. Dread rating was three skulls. In the Late Period my Ghazi don't do as well. I could be wrong on this one but it seems that Ghazi are the best infantry to break down Castle gates. In one of my first Campaign's, two Ghazi Units were able to get through three Constantinople gates and take care of all the defenders. Last point is that Ghazi are cheap so you can pump them out like popcorn.

[Brutal DLX]

Well, the topic's name is "Favorite shock troops", not best-

anyway, so, of that list, I like Khwarazmirian Cavalry best, any faction can get them, and they perfom in a pinch. In general my favourite shock troops are still the CMAA. They can hold, they can flank, they are where the action is.

[ErikJansen]

Fave shock troops have to be the Heavy Janitors, with the Ghazis coming in on a nice second. JHI function best vs Cav charges, whereas the Ghazis love to mow down those spear formations. Bring a few of each, I say http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Combined arms warfare http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Red Harvest]

Ghazis are too fragile. In my tests equal valor/equal armour upgrade militia sargeants whipped them. They are useful as egyptian since you need something for shock, but they are inferior to the western units. They are just a bit stronger than western urban militia and I use them accordingly.

Gallowglasses are the main reason to take Ireland...

[Pablo Sanchez]

Quote[/b] (Red Harvest @ Feb. 19 2003,13:58)]Ghazis are too fragile. In my tests equal valor/equal armour upgrade militia sargeants whipped them. They are useful as egyptian since you need something for shock, but they are inferior to the western units. They are just a bit stronger than western urban militia and I use them accordingly.
The Ghazis are alright if you send them into battle with the knowledge that you won't get them back, at least not in one piece. They're good for tying good enemy units down, because they are so damn hard to rout that the enemy has to kill all of them before they can move. Despite the weak defense, that can take time.

Flank attacks is the only place where they can really shine--and then, who doesn't do well with that advantage?

[Mr. Juice]

I've found Ghazis are good at 3 things:
1. Flanking
2. Chasing (nice way to get rid of enemy archers)
3. Dying like its going out of style

But #3 is ok, because their damn cheap, don't rout, and take the enemy down with them.

[ErikJansen]

The Ghazis have become part of my 'Disposable Hero Brigade' as of late, and I just have to pour a bit more praise upon them. They die well and bring a lot of more worthy men with them to the afterlife. Ghazis really dislike infidels http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[bosdur]

I am still sticking with Lancers , nothing beats them late during the game (when units are at 2 bars or less).

[Jxrc]

1. Vikings (cheap, good morale, reliable);
2. Gallowglasses (real spearmen slayers);
3. Clansmen (cheap, and fast)
4. Chivalric MAA (ok they suck but they look good and the unit description makes think they are to be fear ...)

[Znake]

In MP.
Foots:
1. Gallowglasses (valour 3)
2. Militia sergeants (Valour 4)

Cavs:
1. Lancers
2. Chiv Knights (gets morale boost when charging without orders, but dangerous also)

[malkuth]

Gallowglasses.

I use them alot as my filler units in my english camp right now. They are cheap and easy to replace.

They take the most losses but they also give a good woopin to the enemy formations.

[Ckrisz]

Just had a very ugly experience where a group of 35(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Nizaris rolled uphill(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and wrecked my fresh 100-man English Chivalric Sergeants. Killed about 80 of them in less than a minute and routed them, thus collapsing my entire right flank and sending my army off the field in tatters. I had not planned a flanking unit on the right because I thought that there was absolutely no way that Nizaris (upjumped archers, I thought) could beat 100 Chivalric Sergeants. Gah Methinks I will be building more of these boys the next time I play Egypt.

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Ckrisz @ Feb. 23 2003,10:09)]Just had a very ugly experience where a group of 35(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Nizaris rolled uphill(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and wrecked my fresh 100-man English Chivalric Sergeants. Killed about 80 of them in less than a minute and routed them, thus collapsing my entire right flank and sending my army off the field in tatters. I had not planned a flanking unit on the right because I thought that there was absolutely no way that Nizaris (upjumped archers, I thought) could beat 100 Chivalric Sergeants. Gah Methinks I will be building more of these boys the next time I play Egypt.
So the Chivalric Sargents were yours? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Some units like Highland Clansmen tend to charge on their own....

[Rowan11088]

I've been surprised at the weakness of Feudal Knights, considering their stats. They seem to die like flies to routing units, if they're in the way, and I've never come out of a fight with more then 3/4 of the original unit, even against easy enemies. I'm not impressed. However, Mounted Sergeants have impressed me. Of course, their stats leave a lot to be desired, but a valor upgrade or two and they're not bad at all. THey almost never have any casualties hitting the flanks of low level infantry, and I once charged them directly into a full unit of urban militia, head on, and they routed the unit and killed half of them without a single casualty Very nice to have on borders with weaker nations.

[desdichado]

Quote[/b] (Rowan11088 @ Mar. 03 2003,07:57)]I've been surprised at the weakness of Feudal Knights, considering their stats. They seem to die like flies to routing units, if they're in the way, and I've never come out of a fight with more then 3/4 of the original unit, even against easy enemies. I'm not impressed. However, Mounted Sergeants have impressed me. Of course, their stats leave a lot to be desired, but a valor upgrade or two and they're not bad at all. THey almost never have any casualties hitting the flanks of low level infantry, and I once charged them directly into a full unit of urban militia, head on, and they routed the unit and killed half of them without a single casualty Very nice to have on borders with weaker nations.
Rowan1108,

I totally agree. Fuedal knights are not worth the effort but I was always try to have mtd sargeants somewhere in my armies.

Favourite shock troops are cmaa/gallowglasses combo.

My current campaign is as Kievans (new Russian faction in WesW mod) and i am having a lot of fun with Boyar/Lithuanian cavalry. The lith cav are now easier to get but lose their bows but had a huge battle against Egyptians and they kept up charge after charge. 2 units working together must have destroyed 6+ units on their own.

[Michael the Great]

This I believe is a bug,when fleeing men kill your units that are in front of them.
It was in Shogun as well............ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif