Swiss Halberdiers

[Rowan11088]

I have no idea why no one likes Swiss Halberdiers. IMO, they're way better than normal halberdiers. I've been having border skirmishes with the Byz in lower Hungary (now mine, as HRE), and I've put a few SH there, a small contingent from my 20 units of them in the north http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif (have to get ready to fend off Mongols). Anyway, in one battle I had mine charge downhill into some Kataphraktoi, and obviously slaughtered them. But then, they charged uphill into Bulgarian Infantry, Bulgarian Brigands, and eventually some Varangians, and they kicked major ass I lost only 10 of them the whole battle. The next battle, I had 2 units of Genoese Sailors, One of SH, and 18 Hobilars. The enemy was one unit Katas (around 2/3 strength) and one unit of Chivalric Foot Knights (around 38 of them). They came slowly forward, and I managed to only kill 3 CFK with the sailors. the Katas charged, and my SH ran at them. My general was killed on impact...but nevertheless, they didn't run, and they still killed all but one Kata, then got hit from behind by the CFK. They turned around and proceeded to kill every last one of the CFK, and then came up and killed the last Kata (who had been marauding around killing my archers and Hobilars). Still 14 SH left

[Knight_Yellow]

i like them plenty but there a weee bit expensive.

[Lord Of Storms]

I like them also, combine them with some Swiss Armored pikeman and billmen for a cavalry cuisanarthttp://www.smilies-world.de/javascripte/mausverfolger/smilies/smil07.gif

[Rowan11088]

Are they really that expensive? I wouldn't notice...my coffers are overflowing...over 300,000 florins http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Of course if I limited myself in terms of sea trade, it might not be so easy, but then again I've conquered most of the coastal provinces, so trade's becoming less important...

[deejayvee]

I quite like them, but if I own Switzerland I do everything in my power to build SAP's there, so unfortunately I don't get to use them much.

[Exile]

I will always like them because of one battle. My HRE troops routed en masse(including reg halbrediers) but the Swiss halbrediers fought on. I withdrew them into the woods where they were slaughtered by the enemy, but took many with them. The rest of my army ran away. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[LordKhaine]

I found Swiss Halberdiers totally useless, they die amazingly fast. Gah... I'm never using them ever again, I've seen them get slaughtered by FMAA.

[A.Saturnus]

Haven`t real used them yet, but from their stats, they`re not bad. A bit stronger than Billmen, right? It`s only bad that they are so expensive. Normal halberds are much stronger, but are cheaper. But as a relative fast polearm unit they can surely be usefull. But they can only have won against CFK due to high valour. Otherwise CFK slaughter them.

[Kraxis]

The SH have a double edged sword in their lower Armour factor. When they face Halbs they will not have to deal with their AP while their own AP works wonders, but they are good target for archers. Their better Morale makes them better at staying in battle, but that can be countered by building churches and the like...
Their speed and better attack is what makes them great, just like Billmen... Sadly they are so expensive.

I have modded them to cost less.

[LadyAnn]

Swiss Halberdiers are great

Of course, you never send them to fight CMAA. That job should be reserved to your own CMAA or better still, your heavy cavalry. But Swiss Halberdiers are excellent cavalry choppers. They have high morale, so at val-0, as the case of most SP battles, they can withstand serious combat without running. Compared to the Chiv.Sgt., Spearmen or Feud.Sgt., or regular Halberdiers, Swiss Halb. are much better in that regard. They serves the same purpose as Billmen, but at higher morale.

Even facing CMAA, the Sw.Halb. with their armor piercing weapon, may inflict serious damage, although I conceed they tend to die easily due to their light armor. Give Swizzerland a couple of Armory Upgrade and you will love the Sw.Halb.

Sw.Halb. has an advantage over regular halb.: speed. If you love Janissary Heavy Inf., you may like Swiss Halb. Or if you are familiar with the lightly armor Egyptians, you will love Swiss.Halb.

So, although they don't serve all purpose nor they are the most lethal units out there, and they may not be inexpensive, the Swiss.Halb. is an asset to use and protect.

Ok, enough pleading for the case of Swiss Halberdiers.

Annie
Swiss advocate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif))

[LadyAnn]

Missed something from Kraxis: does unit has better morale by building churches? I didn't know that...

Annie

[Kraxis]

Yes...

Church: 1
Monestary: 1
Reliquary: 2
Cathedral: 3
Total: 7 extra Morale for any unit trained there... That is what can make Gallows the most powerful infantry shocktroops (they only lack Morale compared to other shocktroops).

Mosque: 1
Ribat: 2
Grand Mosque: 3

[Husar]

Ah, Kraxis, you seem to know a lot about that, so you can perhaps tell me, what Academies are good for?
And I like SHs too, but I prefer Gothic Sergeants and Gothic Knights in my main armies. But before I get them, SH are a very good unit against nearly every other unit.

[Rowan11088]

I'm still pretty firm on my take of the SH. They may be weaker at 0 valor, but they can definitely still take out any armored cavalry out there faster than anyone else besides maybe SAP. But what's even better about them is that they gain valor extremely fast, at least in my experience. I've been churning these guys out for a while (I started the game in early, so I had Switzerland fully teched up by High), and they've always served me well. Now that I have Master Armourer and Master Spearmaker in Switzerland along with Church+ Cathedral, they never run away. Once, I was being attacked by the Hungarians with about equal numbers on both sides. I realized I had no archers, but they also had no siege engines. I put my troops as close to where the enemy would appear as possible, and the SH carved right through their army, and they routed within seconds. They also took out all the reinforcements with less than a full unit's worth of casualties (I had about 5 units there). Plus, they gained even more valor.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Husar @ Mar. 07 2003,18:20)]Ah, Kraxis, you seem to know a lot about that, so you can perhaps tell me, what Academies are good for?
I suppose you mean Military Academies?

They add Discipline to all troops trained there... A good upgrade as your troops won't be affected by the death of your generals... They won't be affected as much when regular troops run, but that is less effective as they are themselves all Disciplined in status (any troops trained elsewhere will still be regulars unless inherently Elites or Disciplined).
The last and possibly a good effect is that the units are now less unruly, meaning knights won't just run out and charge when no order has been given. This goes for any unit trained in the province.

[A.Saturnus]

One of the defs said discipline influences unit cohesion as well, but I don`t know what that means exactly. But I guess more is better http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Michael the Great]

Kraxis,what do u mean by the fact that Swiss Halbs do not have to deal with enemy AP? don't they have enough armour so that AP can have effect on them?(sorry, haven't used them too much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
I was wondering,SH have a good attack compared to normal Haldberdiers,but they do have less armour,but what is the weapon that Janissary HI use then? coz it's pretty hard to view their weapon because of this camera flip thing,I would say they have shorter poleaxes but I could not explain that very high attack they've got,considering the fact that most poleaxe troops in the game don't excel in attacking.....

[kaaskop]

well i can awnser that question , AP goes like this
: for every two points of armour a unit got above one
an unit with AP gets a plus one attack. So for example
a swiss halbedier gets a plus two AP attack bonus against a normal halbedier (armour five) while the halbedier get no AP bonus against the swiss (armour two).

the swiss halbediers are one of my favorite mp units and IMO are better then any other poleaxe unit because of high
morale relative speed the only contester is the h jan inf
and when you compare compare prices (375 vs 725) the swiss
halb is the best buy .

as for why the heavy jan inf has such a high attack ,well
could talk about what fine warriors they where and such
(best in europe btw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif) but i think the main reason is that the developers want to give each unit a distinctive feel and that why the differences are so extreme
halbs at1 def6 ,shalbs at3 def3 ,hjan inf at5 def3 ,bill at2 def4.

hope this helps a bit

ugh typo

[Kraxis]

Kaaskop is right.

The SH has only got Armour 2 which adds nothing to AP in melee. While the Halbs have Armour 5 which will add 2 points of attack to a unit with AP.
Meaning V0 SH will defeat any V0 Halb due to better Morale and better melee capabilities.

One can argue that SH are in fact a weaker and cheaper version of the JHI.

[Cooperman]

Swiss Halbardiers with thir lack of armour and high speed are one of the best christian unit for fighting offensive battles in the desert, they can slaughter anything the muslims can throw at them just got to be careful to protect them from horse archers.

[Michael the Great]

Yes,but THE best anti-AP thing, if I can say that,is the..shield...and that's because,it gives defence and armor,but it doesn't count in the AP formula.....
Of course,some units use ther shield only for protecting against arrows,some cavalry use a small shield who gives only a smal bonus,and some units don't use their shield at all(Hospitaller Foot Knights).
About Swiss Halbs....I use them.....they prey on heavy cav. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif