Updating Obsolete Units

[Brother Derfel]

Don't know if this has been covered before, so here goes...

I have often thought that your obsolete units should be able to be upgraded to a newer unit of the same type. For instance the only realdifference between Feudal and Chivalric Seargents would have been the armour and weapons they were equiped with, training and tactics would be prety much the same. So why cant you upgrade your Valor 5 Feudal troops to their Chivalric couterparts and mannage to keep all of their well earned battle experience. It just seems a bit silly to me that a commander in the late 1300 would still have his men equiped as normal spearmen when he sould have afforded to upgrade their equipment years before. The benifits of this would be that you could get rid of your obsolete troops and yet retain all of the skills they have gained over the years.

Who thinks that this sould be an option?

And if not, why not?

[econ21]

Good idea. We already can do this with Royal Knights, so why not others? I guess it may benefit the Catholics though, since they have a Feudal-Chivalric-Gothic tree that others lack.

[Foreign Devil]

If you really wanted to rationalize it, you could say that you can't upgrade because all of the obsolete troops are dead or really old by the time you could.

That is, of course, if you wanted to rationalize it....


I, too would like to see this, but like Simon, I don't see how it would work for the non-catholic factions.

[Brother Derfel]

That would present a problem yes. Perhaps they can just take advantage of the upgrades that armouries and the such offer?

It just seems silly to me to see a couple of lowly Spearmen who have sloged it out for years becoming experts at their art, and no one can e bothered to give them a new sheild after 50 years hard service.

[solypsist]

not being able to upgrade older units really isn't that inconvenient.
let's pretend you could upgrade obsolete units:
1. it still takes a full turn to create the unit.
2. disband the old unit, and build a newer one, the cost difference in disbanded-unit upkeep and training a new unit is the difference it would cost to upgrade anyway.
3. you still need the proper building to make a more modern unit, so you still have to pay for the structure.
4. obsolete units with high valor tend to degrade if casualties are replaced, which would happen once they are put in the training queue, so with valor bonuses already built into more modern units, this balances out for the most part.




I think what the beef is about is

[Foreign Devil]

is what? Oh, the suspense http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Nelson]

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ Mar. 08 2003,17:41)]Perhaps they can just take advantage of the upgrades that armouries and the such offer?
Exactly. Invest in enough castle and armory upgrades and you can get those old spearman in +4 armor. Weapons and morale can be improved too.

[el_slapper]

Commentaire[/b] (solypsist @ Mars 09 2003,05:08)]not being able to upgrade older units really isn't that inconvenient.
let's pretend you could upgrade obsolete units:
1. it still takes a full turn to create the unit.
2. disband the old unit, and build a newer one, the cost difference in disbanded-unit upkeep and training a new unit is the difference it would cost to upgrade anyway.
3. you still need the proper building to make a more modern unit, so you still have to pay for the structure.
4. obsolete units with high valor tend to degrade if casualties are replaced, which would happen once they are put in the training queue, so with valor bonuses already built into more modern units, this balances out for the most part.




I think what the beef is about is
If you look carefully at the battle logs, you'll see that the game memorizes the valour of EACH man. So, the upgraded army would include SOME veterans with this brand new equipment, with newbies too. Especially good for the leader.

[solypsist]

One major reason you can't upgrade obsolete units into newer ones is that it helps balance the game out. Some people may have noticed that while their kings and heirs die of old age, generals and their armies never do. A counter to this situation is to have obsolete units; you may be blessed with excellent generals in the Early period, but since their units become poorer quality as the game progresses, you can either "retire" them into governorships, or risk losing that Valor 6 General spearman unit against that Valor 3 Gothic Knight unit. So in a way, your Generals don't really die like your Royalty, but they can become almost as useless as a dead king.