View Full Version : Creative Assembly Viking Invasion
Heraclius
03-10-2003, 16:33
I was wondering if the Viking expansion pack would include cavalry for the new campaign? Did the Vikings and Scots and Northrumbrians etc etc, use cavalry? I'm not sure but I don't think so. If there is no cavalry how will CA fill this gap in gameplay?
I'm pretty sure the Saxons didn't use cavalry, regarding it as too expensive to risk losing in a battle.
There will be cavalry as you can see here:
http://www.totalwar.com/community/viking.htm
AFAIK they did use cavalry back then, there is just not much information about it.
CBR
Orda Khan
03-10-2003, 21:14
Hmmmmmm..I don't recall hearing or reading an account of horses being loaded on their longboats
.....Orda
Leet Eriksson
03-10-2003, 21:21
hmmm,they maybe be of british origin(note:i'm reffering to the indigeous factions living there)so the vikings won't get cavalry,or maybe domesticate british horses...
Heraclius
03-10-2003, 22:06
Quote[/b] (CBR @ Mar. 10 2003,12:11)]There will be cavalry as you can see here:
http://www.totalwar.com/community/viking.htm
AFAIK they did use cavalry back then, there is just not much information about it.
CBR
I guess you're right. there are screenshots of cavalry, not sure for what faction though. But for some reason it just seem strange imagining vikings on horseback. It seems unlikely for the other new factions too. Didn't Harold (a Saxon I believe) have nothing to counter William the COnqueror's heavy cavalry?
Hakonarson
03-10-2003, 22:52
Harold's infantry were moer than a match for Williams cavalry
There wasn't much true cavalry in hte british isles at the time, but there was a lot of mounted infantry. Very rarely such troops might try to fight mounted - there's a battle known where the anglo-Saxon general kept his huscarles and select fyrd mounted to fight from horseback and got done.
maybe it will be that you can only train cav if you have a certain province. Like switz and the pikemen.
Swoosh So
03-11-2003, 15:21
Whens the release date anyway pcgamer says march?
Quote[/b] ]Whens the release date anyway pcgamer says march?
yeah i wish http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
but i believe ECS said second of may
Captain Fishpants
03-11-2003, 18:24
FYI, the Vikings get a cavalry unit in the shape of the very useful Viking Raider Cavalry. During playtests I was using these guys to ride down enemy archers while my Carls Landsmenn and Berserkers got on with the serious business of killing anyone daft enough to stand around and fight them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
You'll also find several factions have access to a new Horsemen unit: think of them as a kind of very early Hobilar.
The other place where you'll find new cavalry in Viking Invasion is among the new units for existing factions, such as the Arab Faris, Druzhina Cavalry and so on.
MikeB ~ CA
I trust that the new Russian Druzhina cavalry will be able to match the western Chivalric Knights and various Catholic Crusaders?
Big King Sanctaphrax
03-11-2003, 19:06
Even if it doesn't, the Russians are getting the new armoured spearmen, which should be more than a match for knights.
Rarely does spear infantry engage cavalry unless the other opponent has commited a mistake. Now im talking MP of course, in SP the AI runs on top of everything, from swords to spears it doesnt care. A human opponent is much more competent.
The need for an equal cavalry unit for the Russian faction is all that much more important.
Rarely does spear infantry engage cavalry unless the other opponent has commited a mistake. Now im talking MP of course, in SP the AI runs on top of everything, from swords to spears it doesnt care. A human opponent is much more competent.
The need for an equal cavalry unit for the Russian faction is all that much more important.
Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Mar. 10 2003,09:33)]I was wondering if the Viking expansion pack would include cavalry for the new campaign? Did the Vikings and Scots and Northrumbrians etc etc, use cavalry? I'm not sure but I don't think so. If there is no cavalry how will CA fill this gap in gameplay?
The notion of the Vikings as infantry soldiers that fought solely in melee, is a wrong one.
The Vikings were able riders, using their small resilient ponies (the Icelander horse has decended directly from them and has been protected from foreign blood for the last 700 years). Those horses had/has two other gaits, Tølt (Tölt) and Pas. Tølt was perfect for long treks as it kept the rider completely still in the saddle (I have sen riders ride around with a large mug of beer and losing very little while those riding in fast trot lost more than half). Pas is a faster gait somewhere between trot and gallop, where the legs moves paired on either side as opposed to the trot that moves in diagonal pairs.
The vikings clearly understood the importance of moving around the battlefield swiftly and used their ponies for that. They also charged with the horses using long light lances, but they were not as good at that as the later knights. If you want a recent reference that is somewhat correct, take a second glance at the Rohan Riders (LOTR:TW). The equipment is similar to the Viking riders, though the horses are far too big.
Unlike the knights he Vikings didn't feel more at home on horses but they would not dismount in every battle.
Also the Vikings used bows, it is in fact believe they were the ones to introduce the longbow to the Welsh, when they utterly devastated one of their armies. The Vikings used a bow of similar proportion and form as the Longbows used in the 100 years war. The major difference was the Vikings drew to the cheek not the shoulder, thus leaving much power out of the shot.
Hakonarson
03-13-2003, 02:05
Quote[/b] (MF_Ivan @ Mar. 11 2003,11:35)]I trust that the new Russian Druzhina cavalry will be able to match the western Chivalric Knights and various Catholic Crusaders?
I hope not - they were nothing like them
The Russians never used much plate armour nor adopted the couched lance - their cavalry was much more along the lines of Eastern cavalry - armed with bows and ovvasinally a light lance and in mail armour.
Heraclius
03-13-2003, 06:49
An armored knight on the Russian steppes would not last long at all. I think the armored spearman unit will be the Russians long-awaited counter to European knights. I'm guessing the Druzhina cavalry will be some sort of horse/archer with heavy (for the steppes at leas) armor and a sword or possibly light lance
Cavalry is overpowered as of now, if it isnt fixed in VI then the Russians will still need an equal cavalry component to combat the western foes. Infantry is needed but the Russians still need a heavy cav unit. Boyars would be useful in the Early period if the Russian faction was available in Early.
Hakonarson
03-14-2003, 00:38
Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Mar. 12 2003,23:49)]An armored knight on the Russian steppes would not last long at all. I think the armored spearman unit will be the Russians long-awaited counter to European knights. I'm guessing the Druzhina cavalry will be some sort of horse/archer with heavy (for the steppes at leas) armor and a sword or possibly light lance
One soldier of any variety wouldn't last long anywhere - your post makes it sound like the knight was a single use soldier with no tactical adaptability whatsoever.
In fact the Russians and otehreasterners valued knights highly and employed as many of them as mercenaries as tehy could, and of course in sheer military terms knights did very well against eastern type armies as often as they did badly.
the weapon, armour & tactics of Druzhina are fairly well known - as yuo say they should be mailed horse archers with some sort of h-h capability.........
the Russians/Muscovites never had any cavalry capable of standing up to Western style cavalry in open battle until teh mid 1700's when they raised cuirassier regiments.
The trouble with the TW series is that it is far too easy to conquer lands and expand empires, thus brining anachronistic forces into areas they never operated in - such as large numbers of western knights vs Russia. Even the Poles, russias neighbours, generally only fought up as far as Smolensk - the logistic problems of going any furtehr were simply too massive.
Heraclius
03-14-2003, 05:27
good point. You're right, I also did not analyze knights very well. thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Im talking MP, if you ever play MP as Russians against a good foe; you'll be screaming for an equal cavalry unit. I know my history, MTW isnt as historically realistic as possible so why hold back the Russian faction?
Hakonarson
03-17-2003, 06:15
I don't think the answer to inaccuracy is to create another inaccuracy
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