How far do you want it go?

[kataphraktoi]

Would anyone like an expansion of the map to lets say Persia/Iran and make the River Indus the final frontier.

This expansion would mean the inclusion of Central Asian/TURKESTAN region meaning more opportunities to duek it out with horse archers there.

Also in the futher north it would be the best entry point for the Mongolians.

Baghdad would be major city to be in this expansion of the map since it is the seat of the Caliphate.

[Hulegu]

Yes Yes yes yes yes. Also yes. And I feel obliged to add 'yes' to that, just to be perfectly clear.

This is exactly what I would like to see: in fact I hoped it would be included in MTW from the start.

[Orda Khan]

Ah my cousin is eager to carve out his IlKhanate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I agree maybe even include Samarkand and the Khwarizmian Empire......

....Orda

[Heraclius]

yes please, otherwise how will the Parthians etc be represented accurately?

edit: sorry I thought this was a RTW thread. God I'm clueless http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Basileus]

i would love it but i doubt CA would do it now with rome in the works

[DemonArchangel]

i think the map should include everything from ireland to china.

[Beelzebub]

I would love to see a "World medival total war 2" after rome. Medieval is IMO the best setting for these games, so I think the new engine (along with other improvements, like 3d sea battles) could really do it justice. Also having the map stretch from Ireland to japan would be great and including all the major eastern factions.

[ichi]

Kat:

I want a Total War Globe. Entire planet Earth, with provinces that vary from era to era following history. Start about 100,000 years BC, with a simple warrior unit (can be upgraded to a warrior with a bone or stick). First building you can get would be a hut, or maybe a cave. Ends in 2400 AD.

Oh yeah, and bring back STW four seasons.

And sell it for less than $25. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

ichi

[wordsmith]

Quote[/b] (ichi @ Mar. 14 2003,21:28)]Kat:

I want a Total War Globe. Entire planet Earth, with provinces that vary from era to era following history. Start about 100,000 years BC, with a simple warrior unit (can be upgraded to a warrior with a bone or stick). First building you can get would be a hut, or maybe a cave. Ends in 2400 AD.

Oh yeah, and bring back STW four seasons.

And sell it for less than $25. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

ichi
nuts to that I dont want it any bigger until i can speed up the map scolling arg, moving from america to china would kill me, i can barely survive moveing units from the british isles to egypt http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Gaius Julius]

The more war the merrier. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[BDC]

Most the Islamic Empires went further east and thingys (the loss of Baghdad to the Mongols is even mentioned in one description) and was quite important. Plus I could decide to be sick and remodel the invasion of Iraq now... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[A.Saturnus]

I would also like to invade Antarctica http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Terrax]

DEATH TO REBEL PENGUINS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[econ21]

I think the Islamic factions suffer from the Eurocentric maps. I have been reading a little about the crusades and one interesting view point is that they were not seen as that important to the Islamic factions that controlled the areas, as all that was occupied - and occupied relatively briefly - was a few relatively small coastal strips [1]. However, in the game, the loss of the 4 crusading targets guts the Islamic factions.

[1] By contrast, the Mongol invasion was much more of a serious threat.

[Orda Khan]

I must agree with you Simon Appleton, the crusades achieved very little and many simply degenerated into bands of lawless looters..( the crusades that wander around the campaign map and fizzle out? )

When civil war stopped the supply of troops to Hulegu's middle east campaign there was still the possibility of a Western / Mongol alliance. This was the dream of Hayton of Lesser Armenia. He and his son-in-law Bohemund 4th of Antioch led the only western force to fight alongside the Mongols but in other instances the crusaders allowed safe passage through their territory for Baibars and his Mameluk army. Not too long after this they would be relinquishing their conquests.

.....Orda

[Hakonarson]

I disagree with Simon - to teh Western Islamic powers the Crusades were big things indeed - Egypt was constrained, Syria (Damascus) never became much of a power and the Turks were seriously threatened by the crusading states in the outremer.

the effect on hte Islamic psyche is still evident today with the viturpive use of "Crusade" that various extremists have made - remember what hapened when GWB initially called for a crusade against evil???

However there was more to the Islamic world than teh Mediteranean coast - there was Persia and Mesopotamia (Iran and Iraq in modern parlance), the Trans-Oxus (Southern/Central Asian CIS states, etc.

And trade routes were not as fixed as they are in MTW - IMO that'sd one of the major problems - overland trade routes from the east aer given solely as the trading goods along hte Mediteranean coast whereas those cities were only the end point of long caravan routes.

[NewJeffCT]

I would love to see an expanded map to include more of the Middle East. I think sometimes getting those provinces is a huge advantage, as you don't have to worry about anybody attacking you from the east if you own Syria & Arabia.

In my first campaign when learning the game, I was the English and never launched a Crusade, and I struggled battling the Catholics for control of France, Spain and Aragon while Egypt expanded through Russia, Poland, & the Baltic States, Asia Minor, and all of Africa(and they had huge stacks of troops in Naples, but never attacked the Pope???)

However, in my next campaign as the Spanish (I chose them just for the Jinettes&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I just launched Crusade after Crusade to retake provinces in Spain, and then Africa. And, nobody could attack me from the East or West when I took Egypt, Tripoli, Palestine, Syria or Arabia. Just from the North. It was nice to have smaller garrisons in some provinces and only have to defend myself from one direction.

My first campaign, I was barely afloat financially. As the Spanish, I finished with well over 1 million florins in the bank.

[econ21]

Harkonarson, maybe what I read was wrong - you do pick up some very dodgy stuff trawling through the net and some of it is written very much in response to current world events.

The "Crusaders were not a big deal to the Islamic world" thesis was partly memorable because it is quite against the current received wisdom in the West and in Moslem countries. Part of the argument was that all the supposed bitter Islamic enmity towards the crusades was actually a perception that developed in the Middle East in the late nineteenth century and after. At that time, the relative decline of the Turkey and the Arab states compared to the Europeans was very marked, with the Islamic world feeling defensive and threatened. This was quite unlike the time of the Crusades, when it could be argued that the Islamic expansion had not yet reached its high watermark. One would need to study historical writings in the Islamic world to test this assertion, but it did seem to be a view put about by some scholars who had done this. The restrained and chivalrous reported behaviour of Saladdin towards the Crusaders suggests to me that he did not view their efforts as the kind of Manichean "clash of civilisations" "total war" conflict we sometimes hear mooted today. (By contrast, the language of the Popes and reported behaviour of the Crusaders suggests just such a fanatical position on their part).

Furthermore, a cursory reading of the fate of the individual Crusades, most of which after the First seem to have been abyssmal failures, seemed to support the thesis that they were not much of a threat. This came over in the recent Channel 4 documentary about the Third Crusade, which militarily seems to have been one of the more impressive. Richard did not try to take Jerusalem because he judged he could not hold it. Saladdin did not try to force a confrontation after Arsuf because he did not think it worth the risk. The Crusaders ended up with a strip of Coastal land around Acre that looks very small compared to the size of Saladdin's Empire.

It just does not seem comparable to the kind of life or death threat posed by the Mongols, who completely over-ran a number of states on their way to the Middle East and arguably could have finished the Egyptians, Turks and many Europeans.

Certainly the Crusades did not stop the Turks, in the guise of the Ottomans, ultimately taking Constantinople and threatening into Europe.

As I say, I may be wrong on this but it was an thought-provoking perspective.

[A.Saturnus]

I may be wrong but I think the crusades were the reason for the end of the Fatimid-dynasty in Egypt. As Saladin came to Cairo, the town has given up the fight against the crusaders. Saladin conquered it himself, became Sultan and started the Ayyubid-dynasty. His dynasty ended due to the Mamluk uprising lead by Baybars, that ultimately destroyed the last crusader states and may be responsible for the growing fanatism in Arabic politic. I wonder if the Mamluk rule would have been possible without the crusaders.

Errr, to keep this on topic... would be great if the Kwarazmiam Empire were included on the map.

[Brutal DLX]

To get back to the topic, I'd am content with the current campaign map, but I hope the Rome Total War map will incorporate a lot more Eastern areas, maybe in the expansion pack to Rome, then you could select the Huns and Chinese as well as the the peoples in India (Mogul dynasties&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and the Middle East.

[kataphraktoi]

Now that we are at war, thanks to that tool George bush we can now recreate desrt storm with horses, spears and arrows, I cant wait to use deplete uranium ballistas.

[kataphraktoi]

By the way Muslims describe the Crusades they must think it was horrible. I thought the Crusades were pretty lame compared to the Early Arab invasions. The Crusades were concentrated in one area namely the LEvant whereas the Arab invasions were aimed effectively at world conquest, I just simply cannot imagine which is worse, fighting in one area of the world or world conquest?
Help me in my ignorance....