Units that should have been in medieval...

[DemonArchangel]

well put some up here, i'll put some up when i have some time.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The feared and brutal Hussite infantry,armed with Flails(a sort of ball and chain weapon)this boyos would carve there way through the enemies ranks and totally kick ass
Also i would like to have seen the Border reivers in there because these guys were seriously mean dudes. Check out any of the Osprey Mens at arms series because they really shed light on any questions or unit ideas.

[Kongamato]

A generic Javelin skirmisher unit available to all factions.

A cheap, weak catalyst for battles.

[Heraclius]

the fearsome klibanaphorii, the elite of the kataphraktoi and the Skutatoi heavy infantry unit, both for the Byzantines and maybe a Byzantine light cav capable of taking out horse archers.

[Hakonarson]

Klibanophoroi had disappeared by this time, as had Skutatoi.

Byzantines should, however, get Kontarioi - regular/disciplined low-ish grade spearmen, Vardariots - disciplined horse archers, Latinikon - disciplined (more or less) knights.

Hussite infantry were not so fearful really - but fightign around their warwagons made them quiet formidable - so there really need to be war wagons

Scots need their low countries spearmen as relatively poor quality pikes from an early stage, while Serbia should erally have +1 valour for knights raised there as Serb Vlastela (nobles) were very well regarded.

Other than that there's not a lot that erally stands out - almsot every historical troop type fits into one of the plethora of troops available in MTW.

Edit - almost forgot - Serb and Hungarian Gusar/Husars and Italian/Albanian Stradiots. Both light horse types - the Serbs, Hungarians and Albanians armed with lances, te Italians with javelins IIRC.

[econ21]

Kongamato - I agree about the javelin unit. I went through the Army lists for Terry Gore's Medieval warfare game and such units were the most notable omission from - most factions had javelins in some form (kern/murabitin equivalents); several factions also need javelin-type cav (jinette equivalents). Other than that, I have not found widespread omissions - more often MTW includes units that are historically a little questionable.

[Heraclius]

you're right about the klibanaphorii, Hakanarson. I think they dissapeared after Manzikert, right? What I should have said, and meant, was that I hoped to see a real Byzantine kataphraktoi armed with bow, shield, lance, and sometimes a sword and very heavily armored. Of course only about 1/5 of the unit actually carried bows and implementing this might have been kind of hard but I'm sure there could have been some kind of compromise. As for the Skutatoi I did not know they had fallen out of fashion but I will trust you on that (I'm no great military tactic/unit historian). The other units you mentioned sound good as well, although I believe the Latinikon were exculisvely Frankish and later French and Norman mercenaries (Laatinikon comes from Latin which equals the West) but especially after 1204, and even before, the Byzantine Army was almost entirely Western mercenary in its makeup.

[DemonArchangel]

ok,i modeled in the stratinikon (heavily armored cavalry with a sword), the klibanophori (actually, the byzantines never built them again because they lost the plains of asia minor, and thus lost their horses, but still I'm making them available because i usually reconquer asia minor from the turks in the sp game.)The skutatoi are used because the byzantines really lack good spear units that can deal with gothic knights (skutatoi in my alternate history mod are armed with maces and pikes).

Then I modded Psiloi in for the byzantines
made almughavars availiable to the spanish and more hireable around the map.

[Praylak]

Need some help with this one.

If any of you recall the remake of the movie "Sleepy Hollow" directed by Tim Burton?. Early in the clip they describe the origins of the headless horseman when he was mortal and if I remember correctly they distinctly described him as a specific type of mercenary. I can't remember what it was. Anyone recall?

[Kongamato]

A Hessian, perhaps?

[Praylak]

Quote[/b] (Kongamato @ Mar. 28 2003,17:30)]A Hessian, perhaps?

Bingo, thats it Thanks Kongamato, it's been burning me ever since I posted it. Like it's on the tip of my mind, but I just couldn't think of it. Excellant, I feel much better now.


Ok, so what exaclty is a Hessian? A mounted two handed swordsmen?? Man, that would make a wicked unit in M:TW.

[Kongamato]

The A+E movie The Crossing, which dealt with the Xmas guerrilla raid by George Washington on the Hessians, showed the Hessians as highly disciplined musketeers who fired in ranks. They had top-notch, borderline gaudy equipment and uniforms.

I think that these mercenaries made a name for themselves after MTW's time period.

[Praylak]

Oh. I guess that would be a few centuries later then, yeah.
I suppose the two handed sword thing was Hollywood input. I mean why would a 18th century musketeer be using such a weapon, eh? Anyway, I was off the mark on this one.

[Lehesu]

Hessians are a term for Germanic troops from the area of Hesse. (sp?) Famous from their participation in the American Revolution, Hessian is a loose term used for all german mercenaries that fought for the British in that war, depite the fact that many were from different areas of Germany, such as the Brunswickers from Brunswick.

[A.Saturnus]

Actually the original Hessians were not mercenaries. The Prince of Hessen-Hannover became king of England (think it was George I), which made Hessen a bit of a part of Britain (or Britain part of Hessen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ). So the English king could use his own Hessian soldiers in several wars around the world. Other German lords have put their troops in his service for money. The Hessians were known as fierce fighters, but a lot of them immediately changed the side after arriving in America.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

If anyone wants to see a good history-Napoleanoic film watch The Dualists with Harvey Keitel,its wicked.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Here's a unit that should have been included:

Flemish Guildsmen--
Produced in Flanders, High and Late. 100-man spear unit with discipline, good morale, good defense, and armor.

[Hakonarson]

Flemings should probably jsut replace Chiv Sgts.

The Kataphractoi prtty much disappeared aftre Manzikert too - the native Byzantine heavy cavalry became known as "Kavalarioi", and lost their bows - the Trapezintine empire used bows a lot after 1204 tho - which shouldn't surprise anyone since they were in Asia Minor.

I'd suggest that post Manzikert Byzantine heavy infantry should probably be like disciplined Feudal Sgts.

One other thing that's missing is slingers

A slightly shorter range than archers, but they should be armour piercing as sling bullets and stones could smash bone even through armour they didn't penetrate.

There could be peasant ones and Regular ones - the regulars for Byzantium only I think and might be slightly better if you assume they use lead bullets rather than just stones.

Peasant slingers should be available in Spain and the Mideast off the top of my head.

[DemonArchangel]

Or we could try staff slingers...
Those would kick...
peasant staff slingers and psiloi staff slingers (availiable for the byz only)

[Axelthorpe]

Hi

Does anyone have info on these "Klibanophoroi" (good books, wegbpages?) and other Byzantine cavalryunits?

I found a pic during a fast search, but that's all:
http://www.anit.es/imagomundi/Wargames/gif/Klibanion3.jpghttp://www.anit.es/imagomundi/Wargames/gif/Klibanion2.jpg

http://www.anit.es/imagomundi/Wargames/wargameselricon_klibanion.htm
Which language, anyone?

[BDC]

Slingers should have a longer range than archers (although far less deadly against armour, and loose power at range).

[Brother Derfel]

WAR WAGGONS

They would be great to have in MTW/ The Hussite army employed them to great effect if i remember, and they were deadly against cavalry but vulnerable to infantry attacks.

[Axelthorpe]

Hi it's me again
I found another page about both Byzantines and muslims (clothes, armour, weapons etc.)

http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~tdawson/levantia/

A parade spathion:
http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~tdawson/levantia/pictures/spathion.jpg
Kataphraktoi:
http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~tdawson/levantia/pictures/kataphraktos.jpg

Sorry if I'm a little of-topic