THE list of MTW heroes

[Hamburglar]

I'd like to see how many historical figures we can find in MTW (not counting Kings of course)

Say what faction you had them as and anything about them if you know of their history.
English:

I've seen....

Guy de Gisborne, a 5 star assassin. I've heard that this guy is part of the Robin Hood legend. You can get him easily as the English from just building assassins. He should show up.

Thomas Beckett - a 3 star Catholic Bishop. Get him just for building guys. Not sure exactly what he's done.


Now here are some English generals that start out with high stars upon training but I don't know who they are.

Simon Montfort the Younger
Simon Montfort the Elder
Sir Strongbow Fitzgilbert
Sir Tancred de Normandie

There are some others I know I'm missing.

Italians:

I have had an emmisary known as Marco Polo. he started with 3 stars. We all know who he is.

A high general with the last name Tankerville. I don't know who he is.

Germans:

Henry the Lion - He was a German lord who tried to betray Barbarossa. He just shows up in a random unit with high stars.

Hermann von Salza - another high ranking general. Historically he founded the Teutonic Knights I believe

I also seemed to notice a high star general with the last name Der Bar as the Germans. No idea who he is.


Rebels:

Robin of Loxley (Robin Hood)- showed up during a Catholic rebellion in England in the High period. Not sure what kind of unit he was in charge of because I didn't notice it until I had the option of executing him. I did http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

El Cid - he is a powerful rebel general in Valencia in charge of a unit of Jinetes in Early. For those who don't know he was a major factor in the early wars against the Muslims.

William Wallays (William Wallace from Braveheart) - Showed up in a Scottish rebellion. Led a unit of Feudal Knights. He had high piety, dread, and command stars.

Vlad Tepes (Vlad the Impaler) - showed up as a rebel general in Wallachia or Bulgaria I think it was. He was the historical figure Dracula was based on.


French:

Joan of Arc - you can build her in the Late age. High rank general.

Lord Bouillion - I always notice him as a high rank general, but have no idea who he is historically.




Those are all the historical figures that I can remember. If anyone sees anymore or knows the history of the ones I've mentioned, put it here. I wanna see how many historical figures CA has put into this great game.

[Leet Eriksson]

Turks:

Imad Al Din Zengi(the dude who defeated the crusaders in the second crusade before saladin and Nur al Din)

Qara Timurtash(can be trained,originally a turkoman warrior,but i always train armenians to get him)

Hasan e-Sabah(sum dude,don't remember)

Egyptians:

Saladin(i bet you know him)

and some guy who had the word "aleppo" in his name,don't remember who he was

Elmos:

Ibn Tashufin(the guy who killed El Cid)

Muslim rebels:

Al Mo'tamid Bin Imad(Motamid)the guy who asked for tashufins help,and later El Cids help to kick the berbers out)

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Hamburglar @ Mar. 09 2003,13:33)]Vlad Tepes (Vlad the Impaler) - showed up as a rebel general in Wallachia or Bulgaria I think it was. He was the historical figure Dracula was based on.
WHAT???? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
what unit was he in?

[andrewt]

What is Saladin's name in the game? I've found Nur al Din but not Saladin. IIRC, Nur al Din is around 6-8 stars with the expert attacker (+3) virtue.

[Vlad The Impaler]

about Lord Bouillon .he was Godeffroy de Bouillon , count of Flanders ( but i'm not sure) and he lead the first crusade.he was later the first latin king of Jerusalem .
u get him with the french , the first unit u build it so i think is wise to mode the french to have royal knight to build in Ile De France so u can have an high star general with cavalry.

[Hamburglar]

Well his real name isn't Saladin, that's just kind of mashing all the letters together. I think it would show up as Salah Al Din or something like that.

[andrewt]

There is another Egyptian guy named Asad al Din Shirkoh or something who has around 5-6 stars but little else. There was another one after Ilghazi of Aleppo, Shahinshah I think who has around 6 stars as well.

As for Spanish, which I'm currently playing, aside from bribing El Cid, all the good generals they have have been heirs. I haven't found any good ones yet. For Byzantines, I think there was only one good non-heir that I found.

[Doge Enrico II]

As the Italians I had a emissary named Don Fransesco Petrach that 3 stars.

[Heraclius]

For the Byzantines the only one I have found so far is Alexius Branas, who can be trained and appears with five stars

[Pablo Sanchez]

Quote[/b] (faisal @ Mar. 09 2003,14:11)]Imad Al Din Zengi(the dude who defeated the crusaders in the second crusade before saladin and Nur al Din)
What? Zengi was a potential enemy of the Turks, and was allied with the Byzantines. I don't get it.

[andrewt]

Oh yeah, I got Alexius Branas. His other stats were mediocre when I got him though. Around 2-3 acumen, piety and dread.

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (Hamburglar @ Mar. 09 2003,15:35)]Well his real name isn't Saladin, that's just kind of mashing all the letters together. I think it would show up as Salah Al Din or something like that.
Actually I'm pretty sure Saladin means Defender of the Faith, although I could be quite wrong. Anyone out there know for sure?

[Kongamato]

Quote[/b] (Hamburglar @ Mar. 09 2003,13:33)]Joan of Arc - you can build her in the Late age. High rank general.
This is rude, but I gotta ask:

What happens when you try to arrange a marriage with this general?

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Kongamato @ Mar. 09 2003,20:28)]
Quote[/b] (Hamburglar @ Mar. 09 2003,13:33)]Joan of Arc - you can build her in the Late age. High rank general.
This is rude, but I gotta ask:

What happens when you try to arrange a marriage with this general?
Been wondering the same. I've only played as the French once and had "Sir Joan of Arc". Thought about trying to marry her to a princess to see if it yielded some sort of perversion vice... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Hamburglar]

Oh I got Joan of Arc married. She married my daughter. Kind of funny. PLUS, she had a vice of Secret Adultery, which in the description says sleeping with a woman out of marriage. So she was into girls even more.


I wonder if you get Joan all hardcore powerful and then destroy her loyalty you could have a Civil war and then choose her to be King. She could have children with her lesbian wife.




Has anyone seen any more historical guys? Does anyone know what those generals that I named did in history?


Oh, and yeah, I am 100% sure his name was not Saladin like that. it was Salah Al Din or something of the like. I have a book on the crusades at school but I'm on break so I wont be back to check it for awhile.

[A.Saturnus]

His real name was Salah Al-Din Yussuf iben Ayyub. I don`t think he shows up in the campaign.
I had a bishop Albertus Magnus, 3-stars, who was famous German scholar. But wasn`t there a list in some thread of all heros?

[Gazza the Lionheart]

Im not 100% sure but I think Thomas Beckett was the Archbishop of Canterbury and was killed in his church by knights under the command of the King of England.

[LRossaRikimaru]

For Italian: San Francesco D'Assisi an inquisitor 3 stars (in the real history he was a peaceful monk)
Niccolo Machiavelli ambassador don't remember the stars LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

LRossaRikimaru

[Leet Eriksson]

Salah Al Din shows up as Nasir I,i think i got him.and Yes Imad Al Din Zengi was the sultan of the zengids(the turkish state before the seljuks came).

And Salah Al Din does not mean Defender of the faith,it has another meaning(i don't know how to translate it though).

[housecarl]

Perhaps I can help with some of the English names….

Thomas Beckett was the archbishop of Canterbury the most important religious office in England and was assassinated in 1170 in the cathedral by knights of Henry II king of England. He was afterwards canonised as St Thomas and his tomb became the most important site of Christian pilgrimage during the middle ages in Europe after Rome and Santiago de Compostella. An important work in English literature “The Canterbury Tales” by Geoffrey Chaucer written in the early 14th century had as its theme the events on the pilgrimage to the tomb of St Thomas.

Simon de Montfort was the leader of a baronial movement for reform; he is widely credited with the founding of the first Parliament of 1265. In May 1264 Simon de Montfort won a resounding victory at Lewes and set up a new government. In May 1265 the young Prince Edward (later king Edward I), escaped captivity and rallied the royalist forces, defeating and killing de Montfort at Evesham where he was dismembered by the victorious royalists.

Richard FitzGilbert de Clare, Earl of Strigoil, nicknamed Strongbow invaded and took Ireland on behalf of Henry II at the invitation of the ruler of Leinster Dermot MacMurrough. Henry II later made John, his son, 'Lord of Ireland'.

The only Tancred I know of is the nephew of Bohemond I one of the leaders of the first crusade. He joined him on the first crusade from the Norman kingdom of Sicily in 1096 and eventually become a Prince of Antioch.

[kataphraktoi]

Alexius Comenus, yes yes it is obvious but he is a hero ain't he, rescued Byzantium and earned a big "expert defender" virtue.

Found Thomas Beckett in my empire, was wondering whether I shoukd kill him or not and make history complete, my assassin got killed by his bishop's staff with double pronged eagles on each side - the pope's pike they calls it - no not really but my assassin was caught, poor fella only needed one more day till retirement.

[Dîn-Heru]

As the Danes you get Snorri Sturluson. He is a four star general, I think. And if he is who I think he is, then he is an icelandic chief, who wrote the norwegian royal sagas and the younger Edda, among other. He should appear in late 1100.

[Hamburglar]

Thanks for the info about those English dudes.


Anyone know who Der Bar or Tankerville are?

[71-hour Ahmed]

I had a rock hard Machiavelli as an Italian general, but maybe he isn't THE machiavelli then, if he turns up as an ambassador, or is it just an italian name?

[A.Saturnus]

All Italian ex-royals are called Machiavelli.

[MacGregor]

Saladin, Salah ad din, "ad din" means "excellent prince and star of the religion". Someone already mentioned his real name "Yusef" which is Joeseph.

I haven't discovered anymore heroes than the rest of you have already found, but I did have Friedrich "Barbarossa" as my Holy Roman Emperor during my last HRE campaign. I wasn't sure if you could have hero kings until that point, so I imagine it would be possible to get Richard Lionheart also.

Someone asked about Albrect de Bar too, he crusaded against the Wends, who I think inhabitied Pomerania and Prussia. Henry the Lion also particpated in this crusade.

[Gregoshi]

Maxian from the Entrance Hall posts the following:

-----
Well, although this is my first post, I'm a long time lurker (almost since MTW was released). There's a post in the Main Hall about heroes, but I can't post there. Anyways, just yesterday I uploaded a FAQ with a partial list of heroes w/their stats, and I'll slowly update as I find more. Hope this helps.

-----

Maxian's file has not been processed into the main download section yet but can be found
here (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/). The file is appropriately called Hero_FAQ_v.1.0.zip.

[Kensai Achilles]

what about mongol's Subudai? What's the right spelling anyways Subotai? Subadai? Subatai? other spelling?

[Captain Fishpants]

You've spotted quite a few, but we put in far more heroes and villains than that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I spent ages looking up candidates for the list, and we also had the translators provide a list of the people they thought were interesting for each nationality...

MikeB ~ CA

[Jxrc]

I just went through Maxian's file (pretty nice stuff)

Could someone tell me what is the vice "Possessor of Books"? Never heard of it before reading the stats of Infante Juan Manuel.

[A.Saturnus]

When there`s a Muslim uprising in Bulgaria, it`s often lead by Peter Asen, no idea who that was.

[Jxrc]

To answer Hamburglar's question ...

1138-1142 Albrecht der Bär [Albert the Bear] (c. 1100-1170); maternal grandson of Magnus; Lord & Margrave of the Lausitz Mark (1124); Margrave of the Nordmark (1134); Duke of Saxony (1138-1142); Margrave of Brandenburg (1137; 1157-1170); Margrave of Stade; Count of Aschersleben; he was given Saxony by the Emperor in 1138, but never managed to gain possession of it.

1139-1180 Heinrich III der Löwe [Henry the Lion] (1129-1195); son of Heinrich II der Stolze; Duke of Saxony (1139-1180); Duke of Bavaria (1156-1180); he was confirmed as master of Saxony in 1142; he was defeated by the Emperor and Saxony was dismembered in 1180.
http://www.anyadrish.net/chronologies/index.html

ALBERT I. (c. 1100-1170), margrave of Brandenburg, sur-named THE BEAR, was the only son of Otto the Rich, count of Ballenstedt, and Eilika, daughter of Magnus Billung, duke of Saxony. He inherited the valuable Saxon estates of his father in 1123, and on his mother's death, in 1142, succeeded to one-half of the lands of the Billungs. About 1123 he received from Lothair, duke of Saxony, the margraviate of Lusatia, and, after Lothair became German king, accompanied him on the disastrous expedition to Bohemia in 1126, when he suffered a short imprisonment. In 1128 his brother-in-law, Henry II., margrave of the Saxon north mark, died, and Albert, disappointed at not receiving this fief, attacked Udo, the succeeding margrave, and was consequently deprived of Lusatia by Lothair. In spite of this, he went to Italy in 1132 in the train of the king, and his services there were rewarded, in 1134, by the investiture of the north mark, which was again without a ruler. For three years he was occupied in campaigns against the Wends, and by an arrangement made with Pribislaus, duke of Brandenburg, Albert secured this district when the duke died in 1150. Taking the title margrave of Brandenburg, he pressed the warfare against the Wends, extended the area of his mark, did much for the spread of Christianity and civilization therein, and so became the founder of the margraviate of Brandenburg. In 1137 his cousin, Henry the Proud, had been deprived by King Conrad III. of his Saxon duchy, which was given to Albert. After meeting with some success in his efforts to take possession, he:.was driven' from: Saxony, and also from his mark by Henry, and.compelled to take refuge in South Germany, and when peace was made in 1142 he renounced the Saxon dukedom and received the counties of Weimar and Orlamunde. It was possibly at this time that Albert was made arch-chamberlain of the Empire, an office which afterwards gave the margraves of Brandenburg the rights of an elector. A feud with Henry the Lion, duke of Saxony, was followed, in 1158, by a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, and in 1162 Albert accompanied the emperor Frederick I. to Italy, and distinguished himself at the storming of Milan. In 1164 he joined a league of princes, formed against Henry the Lion, and peace being made in 1169, Albert divided his territories among his six sons, and died on the i3th of November 1170, and was •buried at Ballenstadt. His personal qualities won for him the surname of " the Bear," and he is also called by later writers " the Handsome."
See L. von Heinemann, Albrecht der Bar (Darmstadt, 1864).
http://97.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AL/ALBERT.htm
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Jxrc]

To answer Saturnus's question ... (I of course did not know anything about Peter Asen or Albrecht der Bar fiteen minutes ago ...)

Although a small country today, Bulgaria had been a mighty power in the Balkans. In the Middle Ages it competed with the Byzantine Empire and greatly influenced the cultural life of the region, until conquered by the Ottoman Turks in the late 14th century. The modern nation of Bulgaria was established in 1878. From 1947 until 1989 it was under totalitarian Communist rule.
In the 6th and 7th centuries AD much of the Balkan Peninsula was settled by Slavic tribes. The Bulgars, a Turkic people, migrated to the Balkans from central Asia in the second half of the 7th century. They conquered the Slavic tribes and founded the First Bulgarian Kingdom in 681. The Bulgarians adopted Orthodox Christianity in the 9th century during the rule of BORIS I. During the rule of tsar SIMEON I (r. 893-927) the First Bulgarian Kingdom reached the height of its might. Its territory included most of the Balkan peninsula, and it enjoyed a vigorous cultural and intellectual life.
Bulgaria declined during Simeon's successors, and in 1014 the Byzantine emperor Basil II won a battle over the Bulgarian army after which he ordered 14,000 prisoners to be blinded. For this Basil II took the title Bulgaroctonos, or "Bulgar slayer," and Bulgaria was ruled by Byzantium until 1185. In that year the brothers Peter, Asen and Kaloyan launched a successful revolt that led to the establishment of the Second Bulgarian Kingdom, which reached its height under Tsar Ivan Asen II (r. 1218-41). After his death the kingdom weakened, retreating before the rising power of the Ottoman Turks.
http://sites.schools-bg.net/Plov-CPopov/Eng/natinf.htm

Bulgaria
Following the collapse of the First Bulgarian Empire the country came under increasing oppressive Byzantine rule for nearly two centuries. There were several rebellions mainly social rather than nationalist in origin. The most serious was led by Petur Deljan who captured Skopje in 1040. However, the following year he was betrayed and captured by Byzantine Varangians commanded by Harold Hardrada, the later Prince of Norway and loser at the Battle of Stamford Bridge 1066.
The Pecheneg threat was finally destroyed following their invasion of Bulgaria in 1122. At the Battle of Eski Zagra the Varangians and mercenary knights led by John II Comnenus broke into the wagon-laager and slaughtered the Pechenegs en masse. The Pechenegs disappear from this time being replaced by the Cumans.
The Bulgarians under John and Peter Asen revolted in 1186 following a further attempt to impose exorbitant taxes. An important element of the rebel armies came from the Vlachs who dwelt on the mountain slopes. They defeated Emperor Issac at Berrhoe 1189 and retained their territory despite losing at Arcadiopolis in 1194. The Kingdom was stabilized under Tsar Kaloyan (1197-1207) and peace was signed with the Byzantines in 1202.
The core of the army consisted of armored Boyars and Bulgar horse archers supplemented by Vlach cavalry and Cuman horse archers.
http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/medage.htm

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[MacGregor]

I've always considered myself a history junkie, but this game has taken it to a new level. Everytime I see someone distinguished pop up in the game who I haven't heard of I'm forced to go look them up and see if they are a real historical figure and what they did.

[Gregoshi]

New patron Jeff posts the following from the Entrance Hall:

-----

Quote[/b] ]For Italian: San Francesco D'Assisi an inquisitor 3 stars (in the real history he was a peaceful monk)
Niccolo Machiavelli ambassador don't remember the stars LOL

LRossaRikimaru

There is a Roman Catholic Saint named Saint Francis of Assisi. I went to a Catholic school named after him when I was a child. I thought was kinda neat when I saw that.

-----

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Playing French, I end up with Godfrey of Bouillon (right at the beginning... Great), Gerard de Ridefort, Hugues de Payns (founder of the Templar order) and Jacques de Molay, who surpringly enough is not an heretic / secret heretic, and is loyal to the King. He was the last master of the Templar Order...

Won the games before 100 years war period, so I have seen mostly crusader hero and none 100 years guy.

Louis,

[Striker]

Quote[/b] (Jxrc @ Mar. 14 2003,05:48)]Could someone tell me what is the vice "Possessor of Books"? Never heard of it before reading the stats of Infante Juan Manuel.
Possessor of Books- "Many years of reading have given this man superior intellectual abilities, but sapped his taste for action." (+3 acumen -1 valor).

[Demon of Light]

The Danes get Saxo Grammiticus. He is a Catholic Bishop who wrote a story later adapted by William Shakespeare as Hamlet. I also saw Bo Jonson Grip pop up with Lawman and 8 acumen. Ingrid Elovsdottir is an odd one since "he" is an Inquisitor with a distinctly feminine surname.

[Dîn-Heru]

[QUOTE]The Danes get Saxo Grammiticus. He is a Catholic Bishop who wrote a story later adapted by William Shakespeare as Hamlet. I also saw Bo Jonson Grip pop up with Lawman and 8 acumen. Ingrid Elovsdottir is an odd one since "he" is an Inquisitor with a distinctly feminine surname.

His first name is also feminine, I have never read about any guy from the middle ages named Ingrid. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Jxrc]

Maybe a silly remark but it seems to me that all general who get a V&V as soon as they are created could in fact be historical heroes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

Did anybody have the courage to check this? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Kraxis]

Did anyone notice the lack of Danish, Byzantine, Polish and Almohad heroes not to speak of Russian ones.
While the English, French, Germans and Italians have mounds of them.

I find that boring.... It leaves some factions quite uninteresting when it comes to heroes, and I noted the amount of rebels from the Isles too (but then again we all know there will be a certain Jan Hus in Hungaria).

[andrewt]

Lack of heroes gets boring for some factions. Some, like Byzantines, don't need them though it would be better if they have them.

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (Dîn-Heru @ Mar. 10 2003,09:15)]As the Danes you get Snorri Sturluson. He is a four star general, I think. And if he is who I think he is, then he is an icelandic chief, who wrote the norwegian royal sagas and the younger Edda, among other. He should appear in late 1100.
The first name "Snorri" and the surname "Sturlason" (which should be "Sturluson") are on the list of names from which all the Danish names are selected. One should therefore get "Snorri Sturlason" by chance, although a 4 star Danish general would indicate a special hero. Was the name of the hero "Snorri SturlUson" with a U?

[Dîn-Heru]

Yes, it was ment to be an u , sorry about that, my bad. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The a and the u are to close on the keyboard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ( only 5 letters and one row apart http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif )

[spmetla]

I've had Barbarrosa, Henry the Lion.

I've seen Robin Hood show up, I don't remeber if it had him as robin of locksley or robin hood though.

I've see whoever of aleppo. Saladin. And that's the extent of the ones i've recognized.
I've had a few "hero" assasins as well but i never rember their names.

Oh, and that Tacred guy was a famous crusader during the First Crusade.

[DemonArchangel]

I've seen Stephen Dusan in late campaign though...

[Divine Wind]

Geoffrey Chaucer just showed up in my English campaign

[Baron von Beer]

*"Been wondering the same. I've only played as the French once and had "Sir Joan of Arc". Thought about trying to marry her to a princess to see if it yielded some sort of perversion vice... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif"*

I would suspect the Secret Perversion vice... liking males. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Demon of Light]

I saw John of Bohemia today. German knight unit. He wasn't very impressive though. 3 stars and not alot of acumen

[einar]

Saladin was the christian name for Salah-al Din, which means "honouring the faith". He was born in Tikrit in tha actual Irak and he was a kurd. His real name was Salah al-Din Yusuf al-Ayyubi.

[Ligur]

I've had (St.) Bernard of Clairvaux several times. Once he was an inquisitor who managed in burning 3 very high ranking generals http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

And I think someone claimed having Tomás de Torquemada as a Spanish inquisitor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Goatus Maximus]

Bohemond de Tankerville appears to have been a Prince of Antioch at the turn of the 12th century...amazing what these genealogy sites tell you

[Demon of Light]

Bohemond de Tankerville was what??? I don't doubt the information but that would make me wonder why he always pops up Italian. Antioch was controlled by the French if I'm not mistaken.

[Lechev]

Quote[/b] (faisal @ Mar. 10 2003,20:17)]Salah Al Din shows up as Nasir I,i think i got him.and Yes Imad Al Din Zengi was the sultan of the zengids(the turkish state before the seljuks came).

And Salah Al Din does not mean Defender of the faith,it has another meaning(i don't know how to translate it though).
I had check up on the googles. his name literally mean " the bounty of religion ". Check this website

http://www.dicksonc.act.edu.au/Showcas....in.html (http://www.dicksonc.act.edu.au/Showcase/ClioContents/Clio3/saladin.html)

His middle to the last name Yussuf iben Ayyub if i translate means " Joseph ( Yussuf ) son of ( iben) Job ( Ayyub ) ".
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Heraclius]

I know there was a Sicilian/Norman prince, the son of Robert Guiscard the "Weasel" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, named Bohemund who set himself up as Prince of Antioch after the First Crusade. In the game doesn't Bohemond de Tankerville start out in Corsica though? Could it be same man?

[insolent1]

Bohemond de Tankerville & his army met up with the first crusade in constantinople & they where the "cutting edge" of the crusade as they where all battle hardened & had been fighting the muslims in sciliy(they where very successful) for a long time before the first crusade. I think the reason he is in corsica is because naples/sciliy aren't part of the italians starting provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (insolent1 @ April 01 2003,11:36)]Bohemond de Tankerville & his army met up with the first crusade in constantinople & they where the "cutting edge" of the crusade as they where all battle hardened & had been fighting the muslims in sciliy(they where very successful) for a long time before the first crusade. I think the reason he is in corsica is because naples/sciliy aren't part of the italians starting provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
right but Bohemond was the son of the Norman knight Robert Guiscard, who set up the "Sicilian" Kingdom, which ruled Sicily and in time Naples. I should have phrased my question better. I am asking why he is not a Sicilian general.

[Galestrum]

furthermore, while in MTW antioch is given to the French it was ruled by Bohemund who was, as previously stated from Sicily. Also Palestine I believe was ruled by Baldwin of Flanders, which was not French either go figure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Demon of Light]

I found Ivan Asen and Peter Asen yestereday. They showed up in the same rebel army in Bulgaria(?) [or Wallachia. I'll check the map when I get home] They each had 5 stars and were Skilled Attackers. Acumen was 3 and dread was middling. I bribed them and made one a main army general while the other earned his Expert Attacker killing Cypriot rebels. The main army general was killed by a general-seeking-stone about 5 years after I acquired him.

There is also a 4 star German with Butcher on him. He has to be a historical figure because the Germans have been boxed in by me for a long time and haven't fought any opponant that could give them 1000 prisoners to kill. I'll get the name later.

[Heraclius]

The Asens should be in Bulgaria, at least historically, but I've never seen them yet. It would be interesting to, though.

[insolent1]

Roger De Flor, Scilians around 1270ish not sure about the spelling

[Brutal DLX]

Has anybody spotted Lahire of the French yet? I'm wondering whether or not they added him, since they (of course) also added Jeanne d'Arc.
There is also a French General by the name of Courcy, has a lot of command stars, but I don't know whether or not he's a historical figure.

[Demon of Light]

Werner Urslingen. four star german general with Butcher and max dread.

[Goatus Maximus]

Yeah, MTW seemed to do a couple of things here with the Tankervilles:

1) Assign a clear-cut Sicilian general to a faction that would have had little or no heroes in the early period.

2) By showing Byzantium still in control of Naples, postdate the Norman conquest of Sicily/Southern Italy by 15-20 years. (Robert Guiscard expelled Byzantines in 1071). Either that, or predate Bohemund de Tankerville becoming his vassal in 1204.

Interesting stuff...

[Demon of Light]

I was researching Werner and coming up mostly with sites in Italian or German. (Italian I can muddle through but German is a mystery) Then I found an English site and by coincidence it turned out to be Gamespy with an article written by one of the deveopers of MTW. He said:

Consider Werner von Urslingen. Never heard of him? Neither had we, but this is the fun of research. This ever-so-nice man had "Enemy of God, Enemy of Piety, Enemy of Pity" engraved on his armor, and as far as it's possible to tell from 400 years after the fact, he meant it. Nowadays he'd be up for an Oscar as Best Supporting Baby-Eating Bastard. And he'd win. He's gone into the game, and if you can find him, perhaps you can hire him to solve your problems.

[WesW]

I found this in the names.txt while trying to figure out why Alman keeps getting weird messages. Anyway, thought you guys might like it.

// Hero forenames
["El"] {"El"}
["Mathilda"] {"Mathilda"}
["Llewellyn"] {"Llewellyn"}
["Fra"] {"Fra"}
["Simon"] {"Simon"}
["Stephan"] {"Stephan"}
["Black"] {"Black"}
["Wat"] {"Wat"}
["Owain"] {"Owain"}
["Iskander"] {"Iskander"}
["Ibn"] {"Ibn"}
["Theodosios"] {"Theodosios"}
["Gregory"] {"Gregory"}
["Saxo"] {"Saxo"}
["Bo"] {"Bo"}
["Al-Afdal"] {"Al-Afdal"}
["Najamuddin"] {"Najamuddin"}
["Nur"] {"Nur"}
["Asad"] {"Asad"}
["Sharaf"] {"Sharaf"}
["Fakhr"] {"Fakhr"}
["Ibn Taymiya"] {"Ibn Taymiya"}
["Odon"] {"Odon"}
["Strongbow"] {"Strongbow"}
["Bertrand"] {"Bertrand"}
["Francesco"] {"Francesco"}
["Blondel"] {"Blondel"}
["Godfrey"] {"Godfrey"}
["Gerard"] {"Gerard"}
["ChrQtien"] {"Chrétien"}
["Jacques"] {"Jacques"}
["Hartmann"] {"Hartmann"}
["Albertus"] {"Albertus"}
["Albert"] {"Albert"}
["Hannekin"] {"Hannekin"}
["Werner"] {"Werner"}
["Bohemond"] {"Bohemond"}
["Boniface"] {"Boniface"}
["Alighieri"] {"Alighieri"}
["Catruccio"] {"Catruccio"}
["Ambrogio"] {"Ambrogio"}
["Alberigo"] {"Alberigo"}
["Bartolomeo"] {"Bartolomeo"}
["Bartolomei"] {"Bartolomei"}
["Domingo"] {"Domingo"}
["TomNs"] {"Tomás"}
["Frenando"] {"Frenando"}
["Hasan-e"] {"Hasan-e"}
["Imad"] {"Imad"}
["Qara"] {"Qara"}
["Qutb"] {"Qutb"}
["Vlad"] {"Vlad"}
["Domash"] {"Domash"}
["Giles"] {"Giles"}
["Cola"] {"Cola"}
["Gil"] {"Gil"}

// Hero surnames

["Cid"] {"Cid"}
["Diaz de Vivar"] {"Diaz de Vivar"}
["de Boulogne"] {"de Boulogne"}
["Sgouros"] {"Sgouros"}
["of Locksley"] {"of Locksley"}
["Dolcino"] {"Dolcino"}
["de Montfort the Younger"] {"de Montfort the Younger"}
["Walays"] {"Walays"}
["Urosh Dushan"] {"Urosh Dushan"}
["Agnes Dunbar"] {"Agnes Dunbar"}
["van Artevelde"] {"van Artevelde"}
["Tyler"] {"Tyler"}
["Glyndwr"] {"Glyndwr"}
["Bey"] {"Bey"}
["Khaldun abd al-Rahman"] {"Khaldun abd al-Rahman"}
["Boradiotes"] {"Boradiotes"}
["Acropolites"] {"Acropolites"}
["Beccus"] {"Beccus"}
["Palamas"] {"Palamas"}
["Sphrantzes"] {"Sphrantzes"}
["Grammaticus"] {"Grammaticus"}
["Sturluson"] {"Sturluson"}
["Elovsdottir"] {"Elovsdottir"}
["Jonsson Grip"] {"Jonsson Grip"}
["Shahinshah"] {"Shahinshah"}
["Ilghazi of Aleppo"] {"Ilghazi of Aleppo"}
["al-Din"] {"al-Din"}
["al-Din Shirkoh"] {"al-Din Shirkoh"}
["ad Din"] {"ad Din"}
["ad-Din"] {"ad-Din"}
["al-Harrani"] {"al-Harrani"}
["de Bayeux"] {"de Bayeux"}
["de Normandie"] {"de Normandie"}
["Borleng"] {"Borleng"}
["FitzGilbert"] {"FitzGilbert"}
["Beckett"] {"Beckett"}
["Mercadier"] {"Mercadier"}
["Marshall"] {"Marshall"}
["de Nesle"] {"de Nesle"}
["de Montfort the Elder"] {"de Montfort the Elder"}
["Calveley"] {"Calveley"}
["Hawkwood"] {"Hawkwood"}
["de Grailly"] {"de Grailly"}
["Knollys"] {"Knollys"}
["Chaucer"] {"Chaucer"}
["Camoys"] {"Camoys"}
["de la Pole"] {"de la Pole"}
["of Cluny"] {"of Cluny"}
["of Boulogne"] {"of Boulogne"}
["of Bouillon"] {"of Bouillon"}
["of Clairvaux"] {"of Clairvaux"}
["de Payns"] {"de Payns"}
["of Ypres"] {"of Ypres"}
["de Ridefort"] {"de Ridefort"}
["de Troyes"] {"de Troyes"}
["Cadoc"] {"Cadoc"}
["de Charny"] {"de Charny"}
["Froissart"] {"Froissart"}
["le Maingre Boucicault"] {"le Maingre Boucicault"}
["de la Salle"] {"de la Salle"}
["de Richmont"] {"de Richmont"}
["Bureau"] {"Bureau"}
["de Bueil"] {"de Bueil"}
["of Arc"] {"of Arc"}
["the Lion"] {"the Lion"}
["von Aue"] {"von Aue"}
["of Marburg"] {"of Marburg"}
["of Bohemia"] {"of Bohemia"}
["Sterz"] {"Sterz"}
["Bongarten"] {"Bongarten"}
["von Lrslingen"] {"von Ürslingen"}
["Zizka"] {"Zizka"}
["de Tankerville"] {"de Tankerville"}
["of Montferrat"] {"of Montferrat"}
["de Plano Carpini"] {"de Plano Carpini"}
["d'Assisi"] {"d'Assisi"}
["Dante"] {"Dante"}
["Castracane"] {"Castracane"}
["Visconti"] {"Visconti"}
["da Barbiano"] {"da Barbiano"}
["Colleoni"] {"Colleoni"}
["Sforza"] {"Sforza"}
["Petrach"] {"Petrach"}
["Oleshnicki"] {"Oleshnicki"}
["Petrovich"] {"Petrovich"}
["Kirillovich"] {"Kirillovich"}
["de GuzmNn"] {"de Guzmán"}
["de Torquemada"] {"de Torquemada"}
["Martinez"] {"Martinez"}
["DZaz Bermejo"] {"Díaz Bermejo"}
["Sabbah"] {"Sabbah"}
["al-Din Zengi"] {"al-Din Zengi"}
["Timurtash"] {"Timurtash"}
["al-Din Aibak"] {"al-Din Aibak"}
["Evrenos"] {"Evrenos"}
["de Lauria"] {"de Lauria"}
["de Montaigu"] {"de Montaigu"}
["de Vergy"] {"de Vergy"}
["Hunyadi"] {"Hunyadi"}
["Tepes"] {"Tepes"}
["Tverdislavich"] {"Tverdislavich"}
["of Verona"] {"of Verona"}
["of Rome"] {"of Rome"}
["de Monte Corvino"] {"de Monte Corvino"}
["di Rienzo"] {"di Rienzo"}
["Alvarez Carillo"] {"Alvarez Carillo"}
["de Hauteville"] {"de Hauteville"}
["de Flor"] {"de Flor"}
["Tell"] {"Tell"}
["von Malters"] {"von Malters"}