Viking Invasion test

[Husar]

Today I´ve bought the new ´GameStar´-magazine here in Germany because there is a Viking Invasion test inside.
I won´t copy the whole text http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif , but I´ll try to translate the pro´s and con´s:

con´s:
-pixelgraphics are looking too old
-still only simple diplomacy
-no multiplayer campaign

pro´s:
-new scenario plus enhancements
-pre-battle screen
-very good strategymode
-strategically strong, tactically well AI
-realistic battles

they gave it 88% and rated the difficulty with 8 of 10 points.
But now I have to go to bed, knowing that this addon will be very fine and dreaming about playing it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Husar @ April 02 2003,15:04)]-very good strategymode
-strategically strong, tactically well AI
Ahhh.... It seems the strategic AI has been upped, maybe even the tactical AI. Lovely

[Sir Black Raven]

Hmmmm good news indeed.Does anyone know when if or when they will release a demo? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Nowake]

A demo for the addon?

[Div Hunter]

I want multiplayer campaign damn it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

its wrong to mark something down on something it said it was never going to include

if not then GTA3 should get marked down for not having MP or shogun should get marked down for not having tanks in it.


Catching my drift?

[Div Hunter]

I know that but you must admit it would be sweet

[Apeboy]

Quote[/b] ]-still only simple diplomacy

This is a major bummer. All the work put into spies, asassins, bishops, emissaries, princesses, inquisitors, 200+ V&Vs etc. for very little return. Singular or cumulative, all the diplomatic stuff in MTW seems to be treated as an after-thought.

Is anyone aware of any diplomatic tweaks at all and what they might be? Hard to employ strategy and tactics on the battlefield with little rhyme or reason to the diplomatic side of things on even the most basic level. Not asking for a re-write but some tweaks to alliances, trade routes and the like would be nice. Not to mention the Pope issuing warnings or excommunicating you for defending your home provinces.

-Apeboy

[Kongamato]

"Simple diplomacy"

The bulk of this pack, the Viking Era, has a low level of diplomacy. Emissaries are very high on the tech tree. This time, the lack of diplomacy might be historically accurate.

"Great AI"

How many times have we heard this from reviewers?

[Knight_Yellow]

"great AI"

well read any road to rome BF1942 review

"weve given the AI a mutch needed kick up the ass"

olde yellar buys it for MP not SP so hes not bothered when the ai seems to shimmy across the map no matter whats happening and only snipers actualy fire at u but when they do they always get head shots ALWAYS


ill take any statement about AI with a bowl of salt
(except unreal tourney AI its almost human i was on a server with bots *every player was a bot* and i9 didnt even notice for over half an hour)

[andrewt]

Looks good. For me, great AI means competent AI. If it isn't too stupid, then it's already great. I've never played a game where there isn't quite a few stuff you can take advantage of.

[Captain Fishpants]

Sorry, no demo of Vikings, but only a month to wait for the release...

MikeB ~ CA

[Swoosh So]

Duh guys do you think the reviewer knows what good ai is? unless hes a real fan of the series? The ai is most probably the exact same because i havent seen any indication from fishpants or longjohn that it has had an overhaul.

[econ21]

The one AI thing we have heard about is apparently the AI making better use of trade. That's probably the biggest killer deficiency right now (once you get a pan-European trade route, you should win the game and the AI does not compete with setting up such routes).

I know people have other criticisms of the AI, but I agree with Andrewt that most games have exploits and frankly I find MTWs AI at both strategic and tactical level better than the vast majority of other games I've played. Anyone know a similar strategy or wargame they think has a better AI? The older more hardcore wargames I've played typically have worse AIs (including Koger's programmed opponents in TOAW; the lamentable Battleground games etc). Even the better ones (Steel Panthers or East/West Front) don't give noticeably better battle than MTW. Imperialism 2 probably had a better strategic AI but one that was open to a major exploit. Some of Sid Meier's stuff - Civ2 and SMG - has pretty good AI - but they may be an exception that are difficult to copy (CTP2 anyone?).

[Swoosh So]

I think the ai could be improved easily, make units stay in army formation (exception flanking units) attack in waves/lines etc, not rocket science is it?

[Nowake]

No, just AI science http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[BDC]

Ahh, harder then. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Satyr]

The two games that I have played that had pretty good AI's were Empire Earth (they cheated with $$$ of course) and Kohan. Kohan had many AI scripts written by players and some were very good. Kohan was a really good game too and I am looking forward to Kohan 2 sort of soon.

[GilJaysmith]

Quote[/b] (pr Fire @ April 03 2003,17:44)]A demo for the addon?
There was a standalone demo for the AoE2 expansion pack, if I recall rightly... so it does happen...

However, there is no demo planned for Vikings.

[lonewolf371]

There's even an add-on beta for WC3: TFT but I wasn't one of the lucky ones. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Hopefully the AI will be better with flanking and, most of all, attacking again after he brings in reinforcements. Those are the most basic things I'm looking for.

[Lord Krazy]

Yes I think and hope it will
be flanking better. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]Duh guys do you think the reviewer knows what good ai is? unless hes a real fan of the series? The ai is most probably the exact same because i havent seen any indication from fishpants or longjohn that it has had an overhaul.


The test was done by Joerg Langer, who`s a strategy game specialist and a TW fan since the early days of Shogun. MTW is his current favorite game. He even might be around here on the Org. He said that the AI has been improved for VI.
Oh, and sieges will cost the attacker men too, as has been suggested here some time ago.

[lonewolf371]

If the defender has a decent castle and half the money of the attackers he will win much more easily.