Thoughts on CK's.

[lonewolf371]

I was interested in just how useful these fellows were in a frontal charge against universal High Age Catholic Infantry, here's what I got using dense and wedge formations.

Dense Wedge
Inf. CS
Winner CS CS
Kills 39 29
Losses 38 37

Inf. Halbs
Winner CK CK
Kills 29 25
Losses 21 15

Inf. CFK
Winner CFK CFK
Kills 5 3
Losses 38 24

Inf. CMAA
Winner CK CK
Kills 36 39
Losses 7 16
*Kills and losses are relative to the Chivalric Knights.

Well, it appears that CFK's are even more effective against cavalry than Chivalric Sergeants, yet they still cost much more.

PS-Be happy that I went through all the editing to make the columns look even. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[BDC]

CKs? *n00b*

btw you don't need the " ' ".

[ShadesPanther]

Well polearmed troops will take out the cav very easily but the reason halbs didnt do it is probably because of their low morale.

and BDC be quiet this has taken him alot of time to do with lots of testing and i applaud him for it, so really you are the n00b

[A.Saturnus]

I agree to anything ShadesPanther said, well done lonewolf371.

BTW, did you use flat ground and are the numbers averaged? If you did, you should say so, I have seen a lot of posts that show rather surprising data (unlike yours) and it turns out the conditions weren`t controlled or it was a outlier (had quiet a lot of them in my own tests).

[NewJeffCT]

CK I believe is Chivalric Knights (of the mounted variety) CFK is Chivalric Foot Knights, CMAA is Chivalric Men at Arms and CS is Chivalric Sergeants

[Lechev]

Vet dun simply brand anybody as noob. Just remember every vet here was a noob before. What lonewolf has done takes a lot of patience and observation. Well done Lonewolf http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[AgentBif]

The only way to get foot knights is to start with the cavalry unit and dismount at the beginning of battle, right? Even though some of the map sectors have bonuses to valor for foot knights, my understanding is that it's not possible to produce knights without their horses... Am I correct?

bif

[BDC]

I was implying I was the n00b http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[ShadesPanther]

Quote[/b] ]*n00b*

oh right, sorry about the misunderstanding.

I'm sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Lechev]

Quote[/b] (ShadesPanther @ April 15 2003,04:33)]
Quote[/b] ]*n00b*

oh right, sorry about the misunderstanding.

I'm sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
Ok im sorry for what I had said as well. Do be careful when you post next time to avoid misunderstanding http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

Apologise and regrets for any emotional dispression cause http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[lonewolf371]

You're correct, however in Custom and MP games they have to be trained before hand. They appear as a seperate unit in the infantry panel. Valour I believe from provinces where you get such bonuses are transfered when dismounting in SP. I'm not sure of this, as I believe when I tested this I still saw no bonus, although retraining might have some effect on them.

The field was Agincourt. CK=Chivalric Knights, Halbs=Halberdiers, CFK=Chivalric Foot Knights, CMAA=Chivalric Men-at-Arms.

Personally I was surprised by the Halbs, but I suppose the Halberd does not offer as much stopping power as the spear and so the knights' strongpoint worked against them. It goes similarily for the Men-at-Arms. I hope this serves as a reminder however to those who charge their spearmen into battle with Hold Formation still on.

All tests were done on Agincourt.

PS-Some of the results may have been more luck, anyone who is willing to test these results might offer even more valuable input. All soldiers had 2 valour if you're wondering.

[A.Saturnus]

Oops, someone admits he doesn`t know everything and gets beaten for it. Sorry, m8

[Tigger]

Quote[/b] (AgentBif @ April 14 2003,14:08)]The only way to get foot knights is to start with the cavalry unit and dismount at the beginning of battle, right? Even though some of the map sectors have bonuses to valor for foot knights, my understanding is that it's not possible to produce knights without their horses... Am I correct?

bif
if you install Wes W's mod you get chivalric foot knights as a standard recuitable unit

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Quote[/b] (lonewolf371 @ April 14 2003,17:14)]The field was Agincourt. CK=Chivalric Knights, Halbs=Halberdiers, CFK=Chivalric Foot Knights, CMAA=Chivalric Men-at-Arms.

Personally I was surprised by the Halbs, but I suppose the Halberd does not offer as much stopping power as the spear and so the knights' strongpoint worked against them. It goes similarily for the Men-at-Arms. I hope this serves as a reminder however to those who charge their spearmen into battle with Hold Formation still on.

All tests were done on Agincourt.

PS-Some of the results may have been more luck, anyone who is willing to test these results might offer even more valuable input. All soldiers had 2 valour if you're wondering.
Good job.

I think test shall have been done at the same Florin level for all inf vs v0 cav. Those units are not the same cost.

upgrade shall focus on valor for CS and Halb (low moral, they fail when they rout... more critical for Halb, for they don't break charge and start losing badly on contact) and Weapon / armor for CFK.

Thanks for the insightful test.

Louis,