How come no Elephants?

[TLRoff]

Every time I play I ask myself why no Elephants are availible? I knoiw they were in use by Mamaluke armies, and I recall some references to thier being in use for both Byzantium, and the Turks. Thier effect on the battlefield was terrifing to most armies initially. Once goaded into a charge they would were usually pretty uncontrolable. If they spooked it was not unknown for them to charge through even friendly units. As an animation it would be fairly complex. The elephant and the armored box usually carrier that had archers and javilineers. Armies that had experience facing elephants learned to attack them with arrows before they got to close. If they could be spooked befor they got close they might just turn and flee (Elephants are not all that stupid..) sually they tended to flee through friendly line..much to the detriment of said lines, but Hey.. Thats War

Any one else miss elephants?


TLRoff
Oakland CA

[Nowake]

Will have a lot of them in RTW, as I understand, so don't worry ... As for MTW, sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Hakonarson]

Byzantines & Mamelukes definitely did not use any elephants Dunno where you got that story from but I'd go back & ask for a refund http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

By the time of MTW there were no native elephant populations west of India - the Northern African sub-species had been wiped out by the Romans.

India and Burma and such places used elephants extensively, but they're outside the scope of the game. The Mongols may have used some, but only in China and Central & Sth East Asia, so again it's outside the scope.

I don't know if the Turks used them, but I doubt it - again they had no access to the areas where elephants were available.

[lonewolf371]

Duh Because you would just stab it with a spearman and it would be gone Also, considering High Age Knights had a way high shinyness factor they would just stab em with a lance, it would make it too easy for the Christian factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Although probably the only part about that paragraph that is true is that they could be stabbed easier by new and improved lances.

[solypsist]

elephants are forthcoming.

[TLRoff]

Hakonarson:
The Elephants would have been availible most likely in the early period only. As to where I got the info.. I'd have to do some reserch as it's bee about 20 years since I used them as part of a minitures Mamaluke army at a wargaming convention. The armies had to be pre aproved and historically correct. I don't even recall which rules set we used it's been so long. By middle period Elephants would have ceased to have any yactical benifit. and thier use discontinued. But in early period with those massive pesant armies...they would be very bad news.

If some one were to mod them they should have the following abilities..

Causes Terror
Iresistable charge.
Bow attack (12 bowmen/javelineers in a howda on its back.)
if theres a berserker atribute they should have it..
uncontrolable charge.
Armored.
t

TLRoff
Oakland CA

[Cousin Zoidfarb]

For once I kinda agree with Hakonarsen.
The only instance Elephants were used in the period of the Medieval game was at Ankara in 1402 when Timur used elephants against the Turks in Anatolia. The Byzantines, Mamelukes and Turks never used elephants. I still think elephants should be included in a Mongol expansion that would include Timur-i-lenk.

[Hakonarson]

TLR I to play table top miniatures - you may have been using WRG's 6th edition about 20 yrs ago? I was

But no - Mamalukes don't have elephants - at least not in the current army lists.

Something to consider about MTW is that the empires/factions did NOT start with nothing - the early peasant armies in MTW are pretty much jsut a place to start a game, not anything to do with history.

elephants should certainly be allowed if there's a Mongol expansion kit - timur used them as Beavis said, and also Shah Rukh, and so did the Mongol Yuan dynasty in China - inded they took their tribute from Burma in elephants.

But apaprt from Timur they were unknown in European and Nth African warfare in the period of MTW.

[Herodotus]

Quote[/b] ]Causes Terror
Iresistable charge.
Bow attack (12 bowmen/javelineers in a howda on its back.)
if theres a berserker atribute they should have it..
uncontrolable charge.
Armored.

They should also have poor morale or a low engagement limit. Also they should do just as much damage when they are running away.

[LadyAnn]

After the war with Hannibal, Romans made sure there won't be any elephants army. Even Hannibal brought the Elephants to cross the Alps, but didn't use them in important battles. The elephants mostly stay behind.

Also, elephants used by Indians against Alexander the Great seems to be more a liability than an asset.

I agree with Harkonarson that there is no Elephant in Mameluke and Byzantine army in 10th century Europen warfare.

In the East, the last use of elephants was in the Trung Uprising (Viet against Chinese), 1st century AD. After that, elephants are more of ceremoneous duty than real war fighting unit. Also, they are good for bulldozer tasks.

Annie

[Nowake]

Wow, Timur Lenk never used elephants at Ankara i know that for sure

They were used against him at Delhi ...

[Cousin Zoidfarb]

See Osprey Men-at-Arms series "the Age of Tamerlane" p13:" Timur's armies also made considerable use of war elephants."