Muslim swordsmen

[Michael the Great]

I wonder why CA didn't give muslim factions regular swordsmen like MAA ?
Well except AUM's of course.

[terryblack825]

Yeah that doesn't make much sense seeing as how some of the best swords in the world came from the middle east. I also remember reading somwhere that the europeans started to use Sabers because how well the muslim armies fought with them during the cursades.

[NewJeffCT]

Hashishin? Nizari?

[NateEngle]

Hasishin and Nizaris are nice, but the structures required to build them are out of this world. Ghazis are also sword armed, but I hate troops that are only good for the first
5-10 seconds after combat has started. When I play as a non-Almohad muslim faction I'm always pining for 2 things, 1) a sword-armed Saracen - basically an AUM, and 2) a polearm-armed Saracen - basically a Militia Sergeant.

[lonewolf371]

Saracen Infantry and Muwahid Foot Soldiers take the place of Feudal Sergeants and Chivilric Sergeants. There are no true swordsmen replacements, although Ottoman Infantry, Abyssinian Guards, Janissary Infantry, and Ghazi Infantry all offer excellent troops in their own right. The Moslems are unique in the fact they sport many bow-armed soldiers that are at the least competant in melee as well, along with what are in my opinion the very best Spearmen: Janissary Heavy Infantry. Historically, the Islamic forces were based on cavalry, namely light cavalry and Horse Archers. In this area the game is accurate, as the Islamic factions field the best Horse Archers with excellent Light Cavalry. The infantry are still good, if not exceptional. If you do not like cavalry-based armies however, I suggest that you play as a Catholic faction, which sport more types of Pole-armed troops and swordsmen.

[Emp. Conralius]

I'de just like to see a Muslim uinit that has a scimitar an a shield. Similar to the Arabian Swordmen off Stronghold: Crusader. I dont consider the Abbysian Guard or Ghazis to be sword units because hmmm...they use axes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Sure Nizaris, Futawaas or the Hashish puffers are good, but they come into play too late into the game. Anyways, they all have swords and BOWS. I'de just like to see an elite, lightly armoured Scimitar-packing Muslim unit. Though it may be a archetype to the Islamic armies, but it's really what people would expect if they pick a Muslim faction.

[Hakonarson]

Moslem swordsmen were very rare after the imitial conquests - the infantry armies ofthe Prophet rapidly gave way to cavalry armies, and infantry was subsequently mainly provided by non-Arab people such as Dailami tribesmen, and various natives of North Africa, Negro Slaves, etc.

Such arab infantry as did exist were almost universally archers, occasionally mixed with spearmen.

The picture of hordes of indantry charging with sword and shield is strictly that after about 700 AD - a picture. A moving one in fact....from you-know-where (hint - it begins with "H", and ends with "wood").

[Papewaio]

Point one. If they didn't have them then they shouldn't be a basic option.

Point two. If they had them then what real differences would exist between the factions?

[Husar]

Quote[/b] (Papewaio @ April 12 2003,17:32)]Point one. If they didn't have them then they shouldn't be a basic option.

Point two. If they had them then what real differences would exist between the factions?
That´s exactly what I think. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Emp. Conralius]

I agree, but when a Medieval Muslim army pops into your head, you usually think of Arab-types with scimitars. Though this is an uneducated view, it's what people would expect. If the Vikings can can wear horns, why can't our Arabs pack scimitars?

[Hakonarson]

lol - can't argue against that logic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I forgot the untrained masses too - there were large numbers of enthusiastic but useless infantry in some Arab armies that might qualify.

[Emp. Conralius]

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ April 12 2003,21:12)]lol - can't argue against that logic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I forgot the untrained masses too - there were large numbers of enthusiastic but useless infantry in some Arab armies that might qualify.
my point exactly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[lonewolf371]

Well actual the MTW Viking sprite looks more like a Nubian Spearman with a axe instead of spear. I don't see any horns on him.

[Hakonarson]

Not surprising - the large round shield is the main eye-catching feature of both

[Brutal DLX]

Ghazis are armed with axes, according to the unit description. There are several units who are using swords (if only as a second weapon as their primary one is the bow).
And they aren't available Late, but in the High period and the building requirements are also ok, in my opinion. Basically spearmen plus Ghazi is all you need to win, especially when defending the desert regions. Western swordsmen suffer a lot with their armour.

[A.Saturnus]

Since nobody actually used pure swordsmen we see as MAA in MTW, it`s surely historically correct on the Muslim side. I`m not sure but I would say spearmen like Saracen inf also had scimiters.

[Leet Eriksson]

yeah there are muslim swordsmen,they are the Muslim Heavy Infantry(thats what i can translate from"Mudajej bilselah")But they were trained in both spears and swords,so they carried both in battle,they wore leather armor,and carried small shields,short spears and swords.when fighting other infantry they use the spears as javelins and then close in and fight with their swords,but when they are faced with cavalry they use their spears.i dunno but is it possbible to mod the saracen infantry to carry swords?and how so?

[Brutal DLX]

I think it would be possible. But then I would mod it in a way that they are hybrid units, throwing javelins, getting bonus against cavalry, and get swords for the infight. But the cost and the building requirements would need to be raised, because that's a very strong unit then... because they would still have the bonus against cavalry even if they expended all their javelins and fight with swords instead...

[Husar]

I think there is one light cavalry unit in the game using scimitars, but I can´t remember exactly which one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[ShadesPanther]

Saharan Cav use them.

[Emp. Conralius]

Ottoman Sipahi as well

[ShadesPanther]

i actually saw something strange. It sorta looks like the Byzantine Infantry use them or something similar.

Also Turcomen horse use them (but main weapon is bow)

[Emp. Conralius]

thats true. The Byzantine Inf. use the same scimita "sprite" as the other mounted Islamic cav.

[WesW]

If you are interested in trying out mods, I have made many of the changes you guys listed in this thread. I made Nizari more powerful and took away their bows, and I made Murabitin Infantry a 100-man unit equal to Saracen Infantry defensively, and they still retain their javelins.

[ShadesPanther]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif yeah i have it but i play MP http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
I like the Janisaries being changed but TBH i thought the archers looked cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

The simple thing to do is mod The wes mod to yopur liking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif