Oh Man! I Understand the EH Now.

[Azrael]

Hey Guys,

You will probably remember how I felt when I found myself restricted to the Entrance Hall, when I first joined the Org Community.

What I've seen today has really openned my eyes to the sense behind this particular Forum.

Back in Highschool, I loved to play Starfleet Battles, a table top Star Trek Ship Combat Simulater.

I discovered they had made this into a computer game with Starfleet Command I & II and now, III, which I just got the other day.

I went to the official site, looking for the Forums about the game and could not beleive the mess

Thoughtfully, the developers, Taldren created Forums and invited people to give their opinions on different aspects of the game.

I have never seen such a collection of rants, complaints, insults and flames.

It is so bad that one of the heads of Taldren has actually posted a reply in a topic effectively telling people off for unconstructive criticism often given in a sarcastic or insulting manner (In effect - complaining about the complainers to a degree).

Looking at the above mentioned Forums compared to what the Org run here, is like looking at good v.s. evil (with, of course, the Org being good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ).

Having witnessed firsthand, just how out of control and ugly a Forum can get, I feel I have to revise my opinion about the existence of the Entrance Hall. I see the purpose behind it and I agree that it is a good thing.

Personally, I always feel a little sick to the stomache when I see people praising the Moderators (maybe I'm just pessimistic and think it's insincere or think the people doing it only do so because they feel obliged to. But I've got to give credit where it's due.

Thanks for hosting such great forums.

Azrael

[ShadesWolf]

Do u play Birth of the Federation ?

[Hosakawa Tito]

Thanks for the compliment Azrael. I'm glad you notice the difference, hopefully others will also come to appreciate it too. Having fun and learning/sharing info about this great game is what this place is all about. It is much more pleasant an experience without the chaos you speak of. Being civil to one another isn't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif butt. Neither is saying thank you. People that can't do either have personal and or attitude problems. I know which environment I'd rather interact with others in and so do you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Larry Blackshear]

I agree. I've lurked on this board for several years [pre STW:MI] but -- as you can see -- only recently began posting. Quite frankly, without the information provided by this forum I never would have kept up with this game.

While I watched the public opinion for and against the Moderators (i.e. the TeraGate conundrum and various opinions thereafter) ebb and flow, I was continually impressed with the time, effort & thought they put forth.

[Gregoshi]

Thanks for the kind words Azrael. To add to what Hosakawa said, I think we don't thank people enough for the things they do, nor spend enough time talking about the positive. It's just human nature to concentrate on the things bothering them. And it isn't just here. Many times at work you get a simple good job, if anything at all, when you do something good. However, if you screw up you get an earful.

Regarding your experience elsewhere, I had a similar one a few years ago. Before my brother got a PC, I thought I'd do him a favour and find the cheat codes for a Playstation game he had. I didn't find them at any site, so I decided to search one of the PS forums. What an eye opener http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif A typical post would say (and I quote):


Quote[/b] ]SOMEBODY GIVE ME THE F---ING CHEAT CODES FOR GRAN TURISMO 2

Yeah, right, I'll get them right away.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

The EH may be a little awkward but until something better comes along, it serves its purpose. Besides, I get to meet all the cool new people coming here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif J/k on the http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Dec. 07 2002,17:40)]Besides, I get to meet all the cool new people coming here.
Duh Speaking of which - welcome Larry. I hope this means you are coming out of lurker mode. We'd like to hear what you have to say too.

[Balrog]

I have to admit I was a little miffed at the Idea of being held up here but it doesnt seem to be too bad Heck I may just stick around even if/when I get the ability to post to other forums.




http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Foreign Devil]

I too, feel the need to agree. I used to play a lot of Diablo 2, and the blizzard forums can get kinda wild compared to here. Oh, and when I first posted, Gregoshi (I think) said hi to me. So I'm saying hi back. And thanks for making me feel welcome. And thats all for now, I've got an empire to run. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Yes, it is a good system. Other forums can get really messy Amazing how many people are having fun just by pi**ing other people off...

Must be a lot of work for the moderators though? Looks like this forum just keeps on growing

[Alrowan]

hehe.. yeah, i personally think thats its a great idea, good for security and other issues, also it helps keep the servers not so busy with 100 same topic threads

[solypsist]

I've noticed that now that the system has been in place for a few months people have pretty much stopped complaining and just go with the flow...
Hmmm....I seem to vaguely remember someone predicting this would happen way back when we first started the EH and 99% of the staff were saying it would never work...hmmm...now who said to give it time?...hmmm..oh yeah it was me. I'll pat myself on the back, if you don't mind.


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[KukriKhan]

Not to throw a monkeywrench into our little love-fest here, but:

with: 9-11, the RIAA and the MPAA (with their copyright paranoia), the dot-com bust, the draconian reduction of ad revenue, and gaming generally being the only surviving, sustainable driving force in internet life....

We can expect more of the same restrictive, proprietary-oriented, treatment all over the double-u double-u double-u, IMHO. So brace yourselves, lads: rough seas (necessarily) ahead.

I guess what I'm saying is this: I'm glad folks have come to understand and accept the need for some kind of gateway to a (hopefully) info-rich site. The 'free lunch' at KaZaA, Morpheus, Napster, et al, is almost over. 'The Man' will see to that soon, I feel. Nevertheless, protests, or objections must still be our bulwark against tyranny - so don't stop speaking up. See hypocrisy? Site it. Perceive a double-standard? Point it out. Annoyed by a pointless flamewar? Contribute to its dousing.

Step up. Be part of the solution. I'm proud to be part of this fine community (including all of you (Yes YOU&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif who can read this silly rant), where personal honor means something almost tangible, where individual dignity is valued more than 'mad skllz', where a particular group of 1's and 0's got configured into a game that brought us from around the globe, from all continents, to this place...this place where I spend more and more of my time, not because I must, but because I want to.

'Cuz you fella's rock.

Speaking of rock: gonna crawl back under the one I escaped from now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Qilue]

Another good forum is Apolyton.

While it doesn't have the Entrance Hall concept, there's limited tolerance losers disrupting the forum. It also has one of my favourite forum mods too - Ming (aka The Merciless), creator of vacation time at Mingapulco (temporary ban).

[Hosakawa Tito]

Quote[/b] (solypsist @ Dec. 08 2002,01:20)]I've noticed that now that the system has been in place for a few months people have pretty much stopped complaining and just go with the flow...
Hmmm....I seem to vaguely remember someone predicting this would happen way back when we first started the EH and 99% of the staff were saying it would never work...hmmm...now who said to give it time?...hmmm..oh yeah it was me. I'll pat myself on the back, if you don't mind.


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
*Gets on knees and presses forehead to the ground, chanting* We're not worthy, we're not worthy, we're not worthy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[GilJaysmith]

The .com and the .org are infinitely preferable to many forums I've seen. And there are many other peaceable ones, well-managed and often self-managed. But I'm appalled at what happens in many places.

For example, after Starcraft: Ghost was announced, I read somewhere that fan reaction had been disappointed, so I went looking for some of it. It was horrific. I amn't really into Warcraft-style games, and the thought that a company which had done several of them might want to do something different didn't seem like heresy to me. But apparently it was heresy to many.

But it isn't limited to game forums. The same thing happens in many of the discussion threads automatically appended to Microsoft developer resources. This sucks, Micro$$oft sucks, etc etc. I'm hoping they aren't really developers...

Gil not CA

[Catiline]

Well polish our shiny halos.

the big share of the kudos for making EH work must go to kukri and greg. Dey da boyz

I'll head back off to the dust bowl that's STW now. Anyone who wants to come say hi in there is more than welcome...

[housecarl]

Also, have to say that the .org seems a friendlier place than the .com forum. I joined in harmlessly in a discussion about longbows in the .com a while ago and found the venom of the arguments (not against me fortunately) and the insults flying back and forth too much and didn’t go back. Here most questions and discussions seem to be friendly and helpful, although some are a little weird but then I’m probably showing my age. I also notice there are a lot of moderators here which probably helps, do they award you moderator status as a long service award when you reach 1,000 posts or something

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] (housecarl @ Dec. 09 2002,09:55)]Here most questions and discussions seem to be friendly and helpful, although some are a little weird
You referring to the 77 post-long is cavalry useless in the MH, 70 of which discuss/argue about tanks? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Mods are invited to join the staff as needed and if your posting history indicates you to be stable enough to handle the rigors of the job. As for me, I was lucky enough to have some interesting photos of barocca... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Catiline]

Worth at least a quid on the open market I expect

[Capnahab70]

I've got to agree, far too often people throw the conventions of civil discourse to the wayside when participating in the message board format.

The obvious reason for this is the complete anonymity the internet offers. There's just no chance that if you mouth off in an unreasonable fashion here that someone is going to A) Punch your lights out, or B) Beat you at your own game and blow you up verbally in front of a bunch of people. You might lose a debate, but you won't lose face, because you're not showing it.

That being said, this seems to be a pretty mellow and helpful scene and I hope it stays that way. I used to go to a site for business information (I'm not going to mention the name, because even though the boards are amusing in a completely car-wreck sort of way, they don't deserve the traffic anymore) and the message boards just devolved into flaming, amateur (written) porn, and completely irrelevant political diatribes, which, of course, led to more flaming and juvenile debate....

[woodsman22]

I think the entrance hall forum is a good idea. The disappointing side is there are some really good threads in the other areas that I would like to participate / contribute in and I look forward to joining the other ranks.

[Mr Frost]

I've noticed this certainly is a very civil forum ; I was supprised by the extent of such as I am used to the only other forum I spend any real time in , WWII On Line HQ , which is a wonderfully barberous devils' playground filled with out of control personalities {I'm a pure Axis merc there , MP40 specialist and living legend http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif} though I don't doubt there are far worse .
I like the juxtaposition betwixt the two . Rather like a meal that is sweat and sour with textures both rough and smooth http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I am known as Mr Frost there also :bringing a chill to a theatre near you Lot of us Blitzkreigers like MTW .

[Gregoshi]

Welcome Mr Frost. You certainly have been busy on day one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Mr Frost]

Hehe , in the WWII Online HQ forums , we are a rather takative bunch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Mind you , there much of is flame wars , bitching and off-topic ... like I say , this forum is a big differance .
LOTS of usefull information here , and I never realised how much a game like this could be {or would be} altered by the players {WWIIOL by it's very nature is not a good subject for player modifications , for many reasons now I think of it} ... quite a remarkable part of the game that it seems designed to readily facilitate such .
I can picture this series encompassing the world and all history 10-20 years from now ... and with a greatly increased strategic side which could more smoothly meld with the tactical side . Sort of what the on-line RPG 100 years war seems to do with strategic detail meshed with the {by then much refined of course} tatical battles when you finnally managed to bring your enemies armies to battle in whatever part of the world your in .
Perhaps they could store the basic topographical maps of the world {with basic weather , flora/fawna etc data} in some simple fashion , which would be the strategic map , and the populations would be modeled in simple terms {percenatges which are jewish and class leval , and social type , profession etc including percentage make good potential soldiers and which get killed in disasters -thus changing the percentages as well as lowering the overall population ... bad if that Mongol raid killed half your peasants as the farm income drops , but atleast you still have good recruits available in the Nobility to create more Boyars and Burgers in the cities for more Arbalasters and Halberdiers ; percentage loayal to whom ... thus representing those blured borders of much of history} and individual details would only be assigned when required {such as when the percentage chance to find a good governer from amongst , say , the local nobility throws up the candidates your agent sent there too look finds for you and they are assigned their stats by whatever mechanism ; or when a soldier is created} and detailed tatical {3D} maps only modeled based on the strategic map data when actually required {perhaps remembering where you have been , or simply using a much greater selection with each map co-ordinate having a set map assigned ... my imagination wanders . Some people feel they were born too late ; sometimes I feel like I was born too early {well I was from my mothers womb untimely ripped , so mabey that's the reason http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif} .
This game , and WWIIOL are certaily ahead of the curve .

Thanks fopr the welcome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
S