Real History and Tactics

[gabrielvilleda]

While reading the forums most of you people have a good sense of History and Tactics. I was wondering where I could read up on some of this things with tactics being the most important. I was also wondering if Sun Tzu: The Art Of War had any impact on those who have read it while playing this game. I had tried reading it once but found it boring. With this game it has actually made me interested in reading it.

Any sources, be it websites or books, would be greatly appreciated.

[LadyAnn]

Sun-Tzu Art of War book is not an easy reading. You will have to cross first the cultural barrier (the metaphores are hard to translate), the time difference barrier (written over 2500 years ago, people have different way of express themselves; written first by carving on bamboo planks, it's a medium of very terse verses; warfare was not the same back then as now, etc.), before you could enjoy it.

Another book of same name, but written by a Westerner in 19th century is perhaps easier reading. I think the author name is Clauswitz (perhaps I mispell his name). Clauswitz's book illustrate warfare strategy and tactics from the time of Hannibal to the Napoleonic War. The details on battles by Hannibal and by Napoleon at Austerlitz were quite an illustration.

Here is what I remember from Hannibal obliteration of Roman finest legion.

Hannibal just crossed the Alp with his elephants. He has some good, loyal and discipline troops. But more than half of his army was composed of indiscipline, tribal allies who joined him against the Roman. The Roman legion was of course discipline and professional.

The Roman legion was setting up in a shell formation, the basic roman formation, marching in rank and file. The Hannibal army, especially the tribal allies are deployed in mob formation, no rank, file, each one for themselves.

Hannibal deployed his indicipline allies in the middle, while his shock troops are at the wings. His elephants are in the middle, behind the mob.

After some exchange of archers, the Roman get confident and move for the final kill. They saw the ragtag middle, they attack there, thinking they will disperse them quickly.

As predicted, the center of Hannibal army yield and almost rout, but the wings were able to flank the legion. The result is a big defeat for the Roman.

Do we see it happen on M:TW (or S:TW)? You bet we did

The genius on Hannibal in that battle was not to match Roman strength by his strength (which is weaker than the roman legion). He presented the weak center to the roman and the roman took the bait. Hannibal used his strong troops to flank, putting the roman in disadvantage, and won the battle (I believe the battle of Canae, or something like that).

If you read the book of Clauswitz, you would see that history repeats time and again: frontal assaults, however strong is your army, would be much inferior to flanking.

Without exactly quoting Sun-Tzu: do a frontal assault only if you out-strength (not just numerical strength) your opponent 3:1. Even so, it is still inferior to flanking.

So, flanking bonus and mass rout is not entirely an artifact of this game. even in imperfection, this game captured the spirit of it.

Annie
[EDIT: I think it is Clauswitz, not Auswitz)

[HopAlongBunny]

Sun-Tzu's Art of War is a good read. Read it slowly and set it aside from time to time. Think about how it applies to situations. It is very comprehensive.

I found that is part of the difficulty in reading it. You may feel overwhelmed (or bored) by the way each detail is sliced into yet more details, so wait til you've thought about it some and have an example or metaphor that illustrates it.

Reading histortical accounts on battles may help to illustrate what Sun-Tzu is getting at. Real-life situations may as well (it ain't just about war)

The game should provide concrete situations for thinking about some of the concepts in Art of War.

Enjoy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[bosdur]

Sun Tzu war manual is more about strategy in general and basic principles of waging war (Such as MTW strategy guide explaining bonuses and penalties in war). You wont learn much about tactical move from there (i.e flanking manuvers, plotting schemes). Sun Tzu did say things such as War is all about deception, but he didnt go into detail about how to make one, as mentioned by hopAlongBunny, reading about epic battles will better help you understand it. LadyAn mentioned Clausewitzs's book On War, it's a good one to start with http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

[gabrielvilleda]

Great suggestions guys. I am currently reading Sun Tzu, and like HopAlongBunny suggested, I am taking breaks here and there. It is really useful and some parts I am even able to apply in to my life in general.

About that other book On War, I'm going to the bookstore today to try and find it and hopefully I'll be able to post if it's Clauswitz or Auswitz. Thanks.