I know, it\'s too early to tell, but...

[Alastair]

Yari Samurai should not lose against yari cavalry with a slight height disadvantage. Also should not lose to JHC. (this is all at equal honor, or maybe the cav with a little higher honor) I mean, dammit, they've got SPEARS! The whole rock paper scissors thing is out of whack IMO.

[Algesan]

IIRC, slightly different fighting styles between Eastern and Western spear units. The West went for more rigid formations, emphasizing discipline and keeping together among the infantry units. The Eastern and especially Japanese used a more chaotic style and the game does allow you to benefit from this some.

[evilc]

even with hold formation etc. on? i know your right but i think the YS shoudl hold still

[NinjaKilla]

Algesan, at the end of the day, the historical accuracy means very little; what we need is a balanced playable game. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Traianvs]

I'm totally agree with Alastair,
moreover imho the game could be both realistic and balanced, c'on guys remember when the first Shogun demo was released, there was a great "chinese morra" system and it was quite realistic too, archers beat Ys, cavalry beat archers but loose (obviously) vs Ys, HC beat heavy fantery (naginata and nodachi) but loose vs Yary Cavalry (anti cavalry unit) and so on...
then we had monks and now it seems we're gonna suffer the same problem with MHC.
I don't wanna be polemic, but imho, the guys who say sentences like "HC cavalry is really worthwhile" "monks are not so powerful" and soon "MHc is easy to beat" are guys who didn't play a lots of multiplayer battles...

bye.

[A Nerd]

Try nagi calvary versus spear troops! Hee hee...

[Algesan]

Quote Originally posted by NinjaKilla:
Algesan, at the end of the day, the historical accuracy means very little; what we need is a balanced playable game. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif[/QUOTE]

Yes we do, but after almost 30 years of playing wargames, I tend to take the opinion that people who complain about a game are not using the units correctly. Which doesn't mean the way the _player_ thinks they should work, but the way the _designer_ built the units to work in the game system.

There is a huge problem in the online version of STW in both versions. It is the ability to buy insane elite unit mixes for a battle. This is present in the SP campaigns to a certain amount also, but not as badly.

The paper/scissors/rock analogy is good for combined arms warfare, but terrain and "strategic" considerations like attack and defense are important also. Spear armed infantry should beat cav in a head to head confrontation, if not in the actual unit to unit fight, then in the cost to rebuild.

Nope, I haven't played a lot of online. I tried a number of times in the few weeks I had the original STW and didn't find many partners for games. Now I cannot try because of EA's server is rejecting the CD key of my game. I do expect a bunch of complaints about "campers" again though, especially in Mongol battles. I can just see it:

"Come down here and fight like a Mongol, errr, fight like a man."

"Hmmm, you mean come down and do what everyone who lost to the Mongols did?"

"Yep, get your butt out on the plains like a man and die like one."

"No thanks, I'm going to try and win this one."

"Dirty rotten hill camping, stay in the woods, map edge using scumbag."

[BakaGaijin]

Actually, you could probably charge the Mongol HC uphill against Yari and still win, so the camper example may not work. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[UglyElmo]

If you want to beat the Mongol Hvy Cav unit and spend less than 600 koku in doing it then up the honor of the yari sam to 3 and up the weapon level to 3 and also the armor level to 3. This costs less then 600 koku and will beat a hvy cav unit every time. If you want to chance it though H3 Yari with weapons at 2 and armor at 2 will win most times. Excluding things like height advantage and other units attacking at same time or being shot up by missiles first. In a 60 unit yari sam vs a 60 unit hvy cav on level ground with the Yari sam having the stats mentioned above and the Hvy Cav at H2 and no upgrades to weapons and armor the yare sam will win. Havent tried the other units to see what will beat Hvy Cav yet. I just tried the yari sams since they are cheap. Good luck and I hope this helps.