Need help in tactics

[Jeanne d'arc]

I only manage to win when i have more men then the enemy, when i am attacking i try to lure them into my trap but then suddenly they attack on me all at once.

I need some better tactics cause the deathcount of my men is always high even when i won a battle.

[Ueriah]

My suggestion: Lots of practice.

I don't mean to sound dismissive, but that's really the best way for someone to learn tactics. You can read any number of books on the subject-- there are some nice ones out there-- but ultimately I think you will end up learning the most from trial and error.

Strategy and tactics go hand in hand in this game. Sometimes you might want to fight not to take a province, but rather to weaken an enemy army. Other times you might be trying to get an army to break and run so a smaller force can route a larger force. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish...

Here are a few pointers, I hope they help you.

--> When on the offensive, set up your troops in formation according to the terrain. If you are in a vast open plain, set up in line formation and advance your lines so they leapfrog one another. Alternate lines between archery units and shock ground troops. Calvary work well both in the center and on the flanks (flank = far side of line) since you can pull them out and _outflank_ your opponent, ie, charge from the side.

--> When on defensive, use the terrian to your advantage. Take a hill and make them take the hill from you Not only do you get a slight morale bonus for being on a hilltop, but you also slow them down, giving your archers a chance to fire more arrows. If you keep archers set on skirmish they will fall back as the enemy advance, and then your shock ground troops can engage as the archers fall behind them and continue firing in a parabolic fashion.

--> No matter if on offensive or defensive, try to keep a few units of highly mobile troops free to circle around to the rear of the enemy army. Even if it's only one unit on horseback, having some guys at the enemies rear lets you pick apart thier fleeing units. A great way to increase your number of captives, which in turn increases your florins which lets you build and maintain more troops

--> Learn the morale modifers Knowing what affects morale will change the way you deploy your troops. You will learn you should _always_ have protected flanks, always have high ground, and always keep the general close at hand

--> The battles you fight are largely determined by your strategic decisions for the campaign. Don't attack or counter-attack hastily or in anger. Sure it's discouraging to lose a province or two, but if you take your time and plan your counterattack over the course of two or three turns as opposed to just automaticially retaliating with what's in the next province, you will be much more effective. Don't let emotion rule the strategic game

--> Don't click on the Resolve this battle automatically button. Each time you click that, you are in essence saying No thank you, I don't want to learn anything tacticially. Just resolve this, give me heavy casualties, and I'm on my way... Fight it out. Even if it looks bleak. The only times I use the auto-resolve is if I'm a little pressed for time and it's a sure-win fight (ie my 700 troops vs 200 peasents)

--> Make balanced armies. If you have an army of all spearman, it sort of limits your options in terms of tactics. Mix 'em up Bring footmen, calvary, archers, and seige gear so you have some options. Nothing sucks worse then not being able to handle a calvary charge since you have all archers for the front line

It won't happen overnight, but if you keep fighting, fighting, fighting, you will improve your tacticial skills and soon will be looking forward to battles instead of dreading them. Happy hunting

[Naagi]

Nice post Ueriah, cant really add much just thought I'd say most of us get burned early on. My first campaign I had no idea how to move the troops, and my poor almo army got splatted by the egyptians. Now Im able to beat 3 to 1 odds regularly, except that one time they did something unexpected I wont mention. Shiver.

Naagi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Syterion]

All that's left to say, IMO, is that if you are outnumbered heavily, the best way to win is to rout them all.

IE. Once I was the Almohads on hard and I had defeated Spain, and the HRE had destroyed France, and routinely had 2 to 1 troops against me. So I went and took many small provinces from the extremely weak Italians, and always killed all my prisoners. So I had killed about 8k troops when I withdrawed back to my Iberian Peninsula choke, and when they came, After a few volleys the 3000 strong army ran from my 1200 strong army.

It also helps to kill their general fast, and to flank them a lot. Try to fight from hills to. Lower the enemy morale as much as you can, raise yours, and if you can't do either, fatigue them.

[Jeanne d'arc]

some nice tips indeed, but when in offensive aint it just better to lure the enemy of the hill one by one?Cause attacking in one line is loads of casualties.

And how i can be able to train longbowmen??

[Jeanne d'arc]

And what are shocktroops?? Can u give me a specific list.
Should i keep my general back ore rather let him storm into battle?

[Dark Prince]

I only have few tatics of my own...

1.if you are being outnumber,try to kill or rout enemy general as soon as possible,that way most of enemy will run away,unless they have high valor..

2.If you are playing defensive side,make sure that your archer are well protected,usually put spearman in front of them.After they run out of ammo,then just rush them to enemy.

3.Spearman and pikeman are good against calvary,so use them wisely.

4.Try to flank enemy from both side or behind..It will cost enemy panic and rout...

5.Take advantage of high ground or hill...

[FesterShinetop]

Longbowman can only be trained in some English provinces, so you will have to own one of those. But if you are not playing as the English you might be able to pick some up by hiring mercenaries.

One thing you have also have to keep in mind s that you have to watch carefully who you attack with which unit So don't storm a line of pikemen with your cavalry I didn't pay much attention to that in the beginning as well and suffered heavy losses But if you know what units to use in what situation stuff will soon get better http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[gabrielvilleda]

While many good ideas have already been said I would recommend for you to use the Quick Battle function in MTW. Not only does it give you some quick fighting it will also help you learn the intricacies of most types of units. That being said good luck learning from the impressive MTW AI.

[Syterion]

Shocktroops are heavy cavalry who are extremely deadly when you flank people. They also are able to cut their way through lines of infantry, but that won't work if they are in wedge formation. If you succesfully flank someone with shocktroops, you have a good chance at winning. If you pincer someone with shocktroops, you've already won.

Also, the wedge formation helps disorganize other formations, and if you use it on a loose formation, the enemy will most likely split or scatter.

[Syterion]

Of yeah, it is best to keep your general in the second or third line, so more troops are affected by his presence, and so he isn't immediatley killed. If he is ever in the front line pull him back. If he is ever way in the back move him forward.

Also, cavalry are horrible in the trees, so don't let someone lure you there, and horse archers are great for baiting and annoying troops, also for fatiguing them.

[HopAlongBunny]

A few quik rules of thumb

Spears hold cavalry
Swords eat spears
Cavalry eats missle troops
Heavy cav eats almost anything...except spears
Missle (archer, xbow, arbs) does damage from afar

addendum: any unit does better attacking the side or rear; your units should never get attacked from side or rear.

more: polearms (militia sergeants, halderds, billmen) eat spears; do well against swords and will eat cav in the woods.
halderds (and I believe billmen) do well vs cavalry in the open as well (with secured flanks)

A helpful morale guide ( I wish I knew how to just link it)


Group: Junior Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Oct. 2002
Luxembourg Posted: Dec. 14 2002,22:25

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello All

Welcome to the org Ueriah

I had a thread book marked with all the modifiers, but apparently it no longer exists. Anyway, I complied the following from the .org and .com

Hope this will help.

Morale States
Impetuous: 10 or more
Steady: 2 to 14
Uncertain: -5 to 5
Wavering: -14 to -5
Routing: Less then -6

Morale Penalties
Unit is Very tired: -3
Unit is Exhausted: -6
Unit is Completely Exhausted: -8
10% of unit is KIA (killed in action): -2
50% of unit is KIA: -8
80% of the unit is KIA: -12
Disordered or loose formation: -2
One Flank threatened: -2
Two flanks threatened: -6
One flank and rear threatened: -6
Charged by previously concealed enemy: -8
Infantry charged, by cavalry, in the flank or when in loose/disordered: -6
Taking Enemy Fire (Missile): -2
Taking Enemy Fire (Artillery/Gunpowder/weapons that cause fear): -6
Losing the fight(depending on how bad): upto –8
Infantry losing the fight to cavalry: upto -14
Out of ammo while Skirmishing: -6
Pursued by enemy of equal speed, when skirmishing: -6
Outnumbered/Outclassed 2 to 1: -4
Outnumbered/Outclassed more than 3 to 1: upto –12 depending on enemy numbers and enemy units class (Elite etc.)
Routing Friendlies: upto –12 when 2 or more friendlies routing, depending on the relative quality/class of routers.
General’s Death (first few seconds): -8
General’s Death (for the rest of the battle): -2

Morale Bonuses
No enemy nearby: +4
Rally: +8
No Retreat Possible: +8
Both flanks/one flank & rear protected: +4
2 enemy units are routing: +8
2 enemy units routing, friendlies outnumber enemy 2 to 1: +12
Winning the fight (depends on how good): upto +6
Impetuous Charge(e.g Chivalric Knights “auto” charge): +4
Outnumber enemy 3 to 1 or more than 3 to 1: +4
Valor: +2 morale for every valor point
General in unit: +2
Proximity to General (approx 1.3 map tiles?): +1 for every star
Proximity to General (further than 1.3 map tiles): +1 per 2 stars
Uphill Position (unit is higher than enemy): +2

also see:
UnOfficial FAQ

Please add/correct if needed.

Have great games



Edited by SeljukSinan on Dec. 14 2002,22:41

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*bows* POWER TO THE SULTAN

SeljukSinan
Vizier of the Seljuk Divan
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Psyco]

The best advice i can give you is too get the fastest cavalry you have and surround them.
It causes morale penalties and pretty soon the enemy will be running like a brain-dead turkey (i cant think of any better examples, sorry). Also, if the enemy has reinforcements ALWAYS stop your troops from persueing (after they get the inition captures) except the fast cavalry, (let them capture lots and make u lots of $)and form up your battle line again.

[Jaret]

Defeat them with the strenght of your Legions and then ride them down with your Cavalry. Thats what Gajus Julius Cesar did ... it works well.

First of all you need a strong Infantery formation. Set up your Archers ( the better the merrier ) in the front row, being given the skirmish command ( they will skirmish away from enemies charging them ). Set up your Infantery behint the Archers. A good mix of Spears, Swords and Halbards works very well. Try to mix the Infantery Line so you have at least one of those Units available on every front ( left flank, right flank, center ). Set up your Cavalry behind both flanks of your Infantery force. Then Advance the entire Formation ( Alt-Leftclick = Move to and remain facing, Alt-Rightclick = change Facing to ).

Stop your advance a few steps out of Bowrange and then let your Archers Advance a little so they start to pepper the enemy with their Arrows ( always try to have more or better Archers then he has ). When the enemy starts advancing on your Archers get your Infantery ready. When the enemy has come close to your Archers have your Infantery Attack them. ( Spears vs. Cavalry, Swords vs. Infantery ). As the Infantery begins to engage the Enemy begin to move your Cavalry around the enemy Flanks and have them charge him from the Flanks or from behind.

Try to keep your general out of close combat He could die out of Accident ( or stupidity ) and cause your Army to route. Use him as reserve. When the enemy begins to route stop your infantery, so the way is clear for the Cavalry to ride down those that try to escape you.

Try a bit around with the Custom Battles, to see if your tactics work and to develop new tactics. Its also very usefull to try out some units.

Oh, Spearmen work way better if you set them to Attack at will Duno why, but it works better like that since the patch

One more piece of advise ... be mean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jaret

[Gregoshi]

Welcome Psyco. I'm glad to see you're diving right in http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Kensai Achilles]

Quote[/b] ] original post: ... when i am attacking i try to lure them into my trap but then suddenly they attack on me all at once ...


Yes u r right AI likes to attack all at once, so we can exploit this to our advantage as a clever species no? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Let them come all at once. In addition to wonderful reply notes above, from my observations when defending:

1. AI OFTEN won't charge and simply standing and marching aimlessly right in front of your troops as sitting ducks for your archers if:

- You have infantries infront of your archers/arbalesters/arqs (put spearlike troops on hold)

- AI's army main body is not heavy cavalry
- If AI has heavy cavs but you have spears infront of archers/arbs/arqs

2. AI often charge your troops if:
- Ai's infantries are superior to your front line infantries (infront of your archers, assuming you have conventional formation ).

ie. AI's Chivalric Man AA will charge your spears if spears are your main body. Heavy cavs will most likely charge non spears front line.

3. When Attacking send your archers (preferably mounted archers) to shoot AI's edge most unit and see if you can have some fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. IF the AI's unit hiding in woods, click attack/melee button (on the top screen) for the archers that you sent out then those AI units will be lured to come out (don't forget to click skirmish button again)
---
Most Common Scenario (at least for me): In the situation when we think AI's gonna charge, let them come and charge. Then spread our cavalries (or fast shocktroops if we don't have cavs) to sandwich them from behind/sides. That's it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

4. Case u haven't used this yet; manage/group your units by numbers (i.e archers group 1, cavs group 4 etc) .

This done by: click and hold ctrl key then select the units to be grouped then click ctrl-shift-1, or ctrl-shift-2 ... upto ctrl-0 to assign group numbers.

Then when u need them to move together click ctrl-1, or ctrl-2 or 3 or 4 ... etc to call the group number desired.

There are things that are not covered here but Hope those help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I don't mean to be a big head, just being helpful ... I think I also have two replay samples on how to lure the AI below (u can try the option 1 above yourself, it's not difficult http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ): Durn this is a long post http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Links :Click here then scroll way down (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=3841)

luring cavs : Ken 2vs1 defend
luring infantries : Ken 2 vs 1 Swoosh
Swoosh also got cool replay there

[Asmodeus]

There are some really good tips here, I'll also add a couple....

Reserves

If you have enough men in your army keep a couple of units in reserve at the back. As the battle rages on you can send them in with a decisive charge to areas where your line is beginning to break up through casualties or failing morale. This is also a good way to releave very tired troops in a long battle. Or otherwise manouever them around to the flanks while the enemy is engaged. I like to use vikings or clansmen for this job as they are fast and violent but they dont generally like a prolonged fight owing to poor protection. Cavalry are also excellent for this job but i always keep them on my flanks ready to pincer the enemy.

Divide & Conquer

If attacking a larger army than your own (not always a wise thing to do&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif try to take on the enemy bit by bit and wear him down rather than let him engulf you with superior numbers. As mentioned in a post above, the fast moving cavalry archers are ideal for this task. Another trick is to hide some crack infantry in woods so the enemy is not aware they are there (when you are defending) but leave some archers or peasants out in the open as bait. The enemy will sometimes dispatch just a unit or two to deal with them while he searches for the rest of your army, when they are close enough ambush them with a full speed (i.e. double click) charge and quickly wipe them out before retreating to your main army. Be careful with morale doing this, if you are too close to the main enemy forces your troops can sometimes panic and rout.

If possible try to break the enemy's line in half (shock troops in a wedge formation can do this) and pour more troops in behind them so that their entire army is cut in half but only do this when the enemy front line is already engaged and unable to attack your flanks.

Don't do a King Harold

Be careful when your troops chase after a routed enemy. If the whole army is in a 100% blind panic rout then fine, hack them to bits But I have known them to rally and turn on my scattered pursuing troops with terrible consequences. I prefer to recall most of my troops into a defensive group formation and just send cavalry and knights to chase them to their deaths - they at least can quickly return to your 'bastion' in the event the enemy should rally.

Concentrate missile weapons and make them hurt

Arrows etc are painfully inaccurate and i have better results when i order all my archers etc to fire at once at one massed (hard to miss) target. They will often rout when pelted with hundreds of arrows rather than the whole army taking just a handfull of arrows. Some siege weapons can be put to good use when you are defending too. If you have to defend a bridge make sure you have some nice catapults etc to pound the troops as they mass together to cross the bridge, the results can be devasting.

Hope these help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif