Stopping Billmen

[portent88]

I am playing sort of an unusual game( at least for me). I am the polish and am playing expert. I have driven the Horde out and now control all of Russia. The English dominate the other half of the world. The only other factions left are the hungarians and Egypt, who own minor sections of the map. The unusual part is the English. I have played the english but in all my other campaigns they never make it past 1200 as a computer opponent which brings me to fighting against Billmen.

These guys are slaughtering me. I have halberders teched out to the max(max armor and metalsmith). I have chiv seargents with the same tech. Both of these units are slaughtered by charging billmen(they are stationary in hold formation). I noticed chivalric MAA actually cause these billmen a few casualties, but they arent the answer. IS there any unit that can compare to billlmen?

I try to flank them but they shatter my interior line so quickly that it ends too fast to get a flanking force of any strength on them?

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

[ZIM!]

usally to ward off billmen I tell them the check is in the mail that usally stalls them for long enoughto send Cats around the rear and skewer them

[and another thing....]

Billmen are tough too fight against http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

When I`ve previously played as the English I didn`t bother having them but I`ve come across the same as you now. At the moment, I`m playing as the Turks and have Janissary Heavy Infantry but when they face off, casualties are about even.

I`ve also played as the Italians and had access to gothic knights - I`ve tried using Pavisse Arb to weaken the ranks of the billmen then using dismounted gothic and chiv knights which has worked ok. However, in one early battle I only had 2 chiv, knight units and 1 I left mounted and the other on foot. I tried to flank the charging billmen with my mounted unit, but they recovered and then slaughtered 65 of my 80 knights, killed a couple of hundred fedual sargeants before my foot knights along with 2 maa units had a go. It ended up with them fleeing the field but 1 unit of billmen had caused nearly 450 casualties for the lost of about 80.

I think the only thing that might weaken them is to concentrate a couple of archers on them before melee.

Good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Mithrandir]

Welcome to the Org portent88 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

your mistake...
you've pitted armoured opponents against them, though Billmen get bonnuses vs. armoured opponents.

Cmaa with weapo upgrades shouldnt have probs vs them...

Pav arbs kill billmen,just like most infantry, just make sure you flank them, dont be afraid to use cavelry for it ( rearcharge), they got a poor morale, so they rout easily http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

Hope this helped.

-Mithrandir.

[portent88]

Thanks Mith. I'll give cmaa another try. I figured halberders would be ok despite their heavy armor becuase they also get a bonus vs armord troops i think.

Maybe the cmaa i used were standing rather than charging thereby getting defend checks rather than attacking checks. I was also thinking about using highlanders becuase of their affordability. Almost like a first wave.

[Knight_Yellow]

well put it this way highlanders kick ass not just a front line but i conquered the whole of france in 5 turns using highlanders as my core inf.

1 time only 25 of them routed over 400 spearmen.

[LadyAnn]

Mithrandir:
Billmen has higher morale than halberdiers and has same base morale of FMAA. Charging billmen from rear is a bit more dangerous too (unless billmen is held down by another unit): billmen turn around fast and kill your cav even faster. But held down by another unit and got charged from behind, there is no unit that could live to tell how they do it anyways.

Annie

[Mithrandir]

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ Jan. 13 2003,17:37)]Mithrandir:
Billmen has higher morale than halberdiers and has same base morale of FMAA. Charging billmen from rear is a bit more dangerous too (unless billmen is held down by another unit): billmen turn around fast and kill your cav even faster. But held down by another unit and got charged from behind, there is no unit that could live to tell how they do it anyways.

Annie
uhm..that was kinda exactly like I meant it yes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif pinning them down while flanking, one has got to love it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

and I wasnt talking about halberdiers, dont ever use them...

there low morale is too expensive to upgrade (need at least V3 to be worth it).

cmaa, are nice, but so are Vikings, Highland Clansmen, even woodsman can inflict some damage, if used and upgraded properly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

Savest bet is just to counter them with a strong defensive unit and then flank them ...at least I never have much probs against them...

(ps : LadyAn, -I'm not a newbie : You actually joined my team tonight because you didnt want to face me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif -think it was in The Elf Lands) I might lose every single game, but I know the theoratical stats. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Mithrandir (Glorfindel) -forever newbie

[LadyAnn]

Err, Mithradir, I know you are Glorfindel, just want to use your board's name instead.

I bought my license to call everyone newbie, including you: I bought ElmarkoOfFear's book (and am collecting his bobbinghead collectible). So, to prove that I am a perennial newbie, here's a proof:

Mithrandir is a newbie http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif as all of you are http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif .

Annie
ps.: there is a down side of having that license: can't play game that are marked no newbie nor noob because according to the conjecture, am a newbie.

ps2: annie's conjecture: a sure sign of a newbie is calling everyone else a newbie.

[Kraxis]

portent88, welcome and you made several mistakes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

First mistake: You pitted the heavily Armoured Halbardiers against the Billmen. The Billmen get +2 to attack against basic Halbardiers. Also the Billmen have better Morale and will as such statistically win in a standup headon fight with the Halbardiers.

Second mistake: You put them in Hold Formation. this forces your Halbardiers to stand and take it, while the Billmen can flank them in individual combat.

Third mistake: You didn't countercharge. While the charge for neither the Halbardiers or Billmen is anything to be real scared of you don't want to deprive your men of something the enemy gets.

You should really try the CMAA again, even if they have armour upgrades as the AP of the Billmen only gives a bonus for every 2 levels of Armour. They should beat them well enough, be wary of the rank of the enemy generals as well as yours (Morale very important).

Apoint you should know, even if you haven't read anything of what I have written. Don't try and fight Billmen with cavalry

The best weapon would be Arbalesters and other ranged units, even Archers can take out a bit chunk of them.