Darn Pope!

[Rowan11088]

Ok. I just got this game a few days, ago, but I'm pretty good at the RTS part. But my first game as the HRE (germans), I got attacked by the French. for no reason. anyway, I lost one province b/c it was not well defended, and when I took it back (easily b/c I had strong units nearby) the Pope warned me not to fight against Catholics Then, a few years later, the French attacked a different province (again one of my inital ones, I never took a french province), I defended it successfuly, and I was excommunicated WTF? The French didn't get any warnings at all from the Pope as far as I know, and they were always the aggressors Anyway, in that game the Spanish launched a crusade against me and I deleted the game (Knights of Santiago pretty well kill even spearmen.) In a new game, also as germans, the polish attack me, and the same thing happens when I try to take back the province, and they get nothing I'm only playing on Normal difficulty, and I haven't attacked anyone besides Pagan rebels. What's the deal?

[Cow_God]

I unserstand your pain but you just need to be a little more devious. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

First, the AI factions do get excommunicated and this is certainly the the best time to wail on them and snatch up their provinces because the pope will give you much more leeway. Second, you can never (as far as I've seen)be excommunicated for defending your own territory, only for attacking. Trying to retake your own lands unfortuneatly falls into this category as well as bribery. So after the pope warns you you must retract your men within 2 turns (before clicking the end turn the second time). Then after this is done you have to wait at least 10 year before attaack the ssame faction again, although you may attack other catholics. The best way to circumvent the pope's power is to build up your forces then make a fast and large power grab so that you take lots of a particular factions territory, thus weaking their economy, and their defence so after the ten years you can finish them off. Of course you couold always assainate the Pope.... but that isnn't a very nice thing to do is it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
(but if you are just that kind of emperor, killing him with get you un-excomunicated, and there wil;l be no record of your attacking catholics) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[SmokWawelski]

Hmm, the ways of politics are strange. Try not to attack enemy territories too often, but if you have to, than you have to. Being Ex... exc...exec... not part of Pope's flock http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif is not so bad. If you can survive with the negative effects among your population that is...

for the first part of the game I try to be a good friend of all the European nations, but in the second age I do not care any more about pope... As long as he is not attacking you himself (I have heard that this is a nasty tactics when he attacks you, you respond and get exc...exech...ech... thrown away from the flock right away)

[Grothgar]

Obviously if your having trouble with the pope, take him out. Dont invade and conquer the papacy though, because they will just keep on reappearing with huge well equiped armies throughout the game.

Just lump a few high powered assasins on him, if you dont have any good assasins, build lots of your own emisarys and have your assasin take them out, ala target practice. Then go marching towards rome and goodbye pope.

The funnier, but harder, way to achieve this is you try the pope for heresy, which is just too funny to describe. But youll need a nasty inquisitor with large valour. But everyone should try it once, i mean how better can you shout IRONY.

Also as has been mentioned, being excommunicated is no big deal, if you know how to deal with it. Also it wont last too long because the pope will invariably die even if you have nothing to do with it (hint hint). And if your excommunicated then its just a big fat liscence to detroy and conquer lots of land, whats the pope going to do, excommunicate you, oh no hes already done it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

So dont sweat that much, just try him for heresy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[SmokWawelski]

Hey Grothgar, if you ever establish your own clan of Inquisitors or something, I want to join http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

LOL

[Grothgar]

Hmm an interesting prospect, my own clan of Inquisitors, Death to the pope and other holier than though men, lets leave the heretics alive. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Yes the Ironic Inquisitors, II for short.

But honestly, i would be honoured lol. But then again me, in charge of inquisitors, this boards membership would drop like a stone http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[LadyAnn]

Eeeekkk, Annie is running away, fear of being burned at the stake.

Annie

[Grothgar]

Well i havent started the club up yep LadyAnn lol, although checking your piety levels, i think your a likely candidate. Actually ive always wanted to say hi, and i likehow you perform in multiplayer, ive seen replays of the battles youve fought in, and your a very skilled player, carried the battle on your own in many occasions.

So its a delight to meet you at last, and maybe your prior service will spare you from the steak http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Oh and check out my AAR thread, you might be interested http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[R3dD0g]

Playing as the English, I had taken Navarre when the Spanish lost it to Rebels. They declared war on me and after a few big battles, we settled into a stalemate. Soon he starts massing big armies for an attack, I match him unit for unit. But, I've got good relations with most of the map and don't want any Pope trouble. Then the Spanish declare a crusade for Livonia way up north and ask for permission to cross Navarre.

Yeah right, you'll march that )*&^ crusade through my evenly balanced armies and then follow on with your assault force. NOT LIKELY I'm immediately excommed.

Ah well, it's not like a big deal. I've got churches in every province and am working my fingers to the bone to tamp down zeal. So bring it on popie.

I've never seen a big influence in the game by being excommed anyway. What exactly does it do?

[Rowan11088]

People seem to generally think being excommed isn't a big deal. For the most part I would agree, but I found some problems did arise. Number 1, playing as Germans for example, EVERYONE attacks you, because they can. It was a bit early for me to be completely unstoppable, so it hurt. Number 2, Crusades. Being Germany and having Spain launch crusades at you? Like 20 years after the beginning of the game? I was trying to hold of Order Foot Soldiers and Knights of Santiago with Peasants and Spearmen (who actually held their own agains the Knights, tho morale ended up making them rout pretty soon). That's the problem. If I was, for example, Poland, I might be less worried (though crusades still hurt there). In later game, being excommed ain't so bad. but in other news, in my latest game as Germans, I have avoided being excommed. The French are still attacking me mercilessly, as are the Poles, and I can't strike back without being excommed, but at least now I haven't been excommed for defending, and I seem to be able to take back my own provinces OK. Unfortunately, no one will ally with me except Danes, and my enemies won't have a ceasefire...I figure I'll just build up tech, then crush them. at the rate I'm slaughtering their armies, the French onslaught an't last long.

[SmokWawelski]

R3dD0g, two questione here:

1 - How do you get the zeal down?
2 - What the hell does R3dD0g mean, and do you type it every time you log in?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Asmodeus]

Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ Jan. 15 2003,00:16)]R3dD0g, two questione here:

1 - How do you get the zeal down?
2 - What the hell does R3dD0g mean, and do you type it every time you log in?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
reddog?

[King Edward]

In playing as the germans, i found you never got excommunicated if you retook your provence INCLUDING any remaining garrisons in castles within the 2 yrs of your warning. (damn french http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Red Emperor the Invincible]

easy,, rush to eliminate pope raze papa state and garrison rome, when he reemerge (often in 2 region) kill all in rome and you get 15000 or more every about 10 years, and of course a good commander also. destroy pope means you got to defeat Italian as you re HRE or build large fleet from friesland..and it generate money alot... how easy...


because pope is ignorant and impetous.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[SmokWawelski]

This whole Pope-money-generation scheme is biased and bogus.

You people do not including into the equasion the upkeep cost of the armies needed to kill Pope's 2-3 stacks of heavy cavalry, halbardiers or heavy foot knights and arbs, that he usually appears with. If you do not keep armies there all the time, you risk him taking over the provinces, at which point it loses several buildings. You need to take it over from him, and thus the province loses more buildings. You end up with barren land with minimal income, and no strategic importance. Rebuilding it costs, yet after several years you need to repeat the process. Then you also have to fill in the beaten armies that station there = more spending.

How can you make money on that Red http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

We had discussion on that before, there is a topic somewhere in the forum...

[R3dD0g]

Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ Jan. 15 2003,00:16)]R3dD0g, two questione here:

1 - How do you get the zeal down?
2 - What the hell does R3dD0g mean, and do you type it every time you log in?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Quote[/b] ]1 - How do you get the zeal down?
I read somewhere that churches bring down the zeal while monasteries hike it up. That may be so much bull - but I'm gonna keep building churches until I read otherwise.

I also build taverns on the idea that a bunch of drunken layabouts won't be so likely to march off on crusades. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Coldstream]

From my perspective, you seem to be going about this in the wrong manner. You're getting too involved in How do I get this other chap excomunicated? instead of How do I make the very holy Pope, a very dead Pope?

The one most singularly important maxims I live by in this game is There is no problem that cannot be solved by the quiet placement of a dagger in the still of the night.

Disloyal General? Dagger. Low-quality heir to the throne? Dagger. High-quality enemy general? Dagger.

Nosey Pope? Dagger.

If you haven't already, take a look at my thread about Royal Assassins.

The biggest thing to remember is that the Pope is an absolutely low-valour, low-command old fart. He really isn't going to put up much of a fight when your Assassin creeps into his room.

Sometimes when I'm feeling devious, I camp a few assassins in Rome, just for kicks. That way, I can conquer, slay the Pope, conquer some more and if the next Pope has a problem with it, you can convieniently disconnect his face from the rest of his body.

You don't have to have 200,000 high quality troops to conquer the planet. I've done it with one man and one dagger.

[Freezuch]

I've only played Almohads(actually still playing) and accidentally found out that by assasinating your own Alim brings the zeal down to zero. So, you might want to try to kill your own Priest. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Hi Freezuch. Thanks for joining us here at the Org. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Interesting suggestion. I wonder which of the Bishop, Cardinal, Inquisitor trinity has the same effect if any. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Red Emperor the Invincible]

just need a good commander and about 600 men 'cause they re many but fooolsss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

I have had problems with the Pope and been excommunicated without commiting any hostilities while playing the English the French decided to attack one of my ships in the Channel and subsequently sunk it. Now I did not retaliate . Then the French attacked my province of Aquataine again unprovoked now just trying to defend myself I put another ship in the channel and that was also sunk now I reatliate and sink the French culprit ships and defend myself in Aquataine and the Pope warns me to end the hostility or ELSE now the French acted as the aggressor and I was just trying to defend myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[mario_yepes]

The pope to me is just an annoyance, but with the three stacks he shows up with, most are valor 1 or 0, and composed of low morale units.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Entrance Hall mario_yepes. Your comment begs a question: Has anyone run into a Pope that was a good general?

BTW The Sword of Storms, I deleted the second of your double post.

[Grothgar]

I find that if you take the Pope out with a muslim faction, the generals (popes) that appear are normally of a higher quality. And when i say higher quality i mean stupily high.

Picture this. I was the turks and yes i was keeping a nice big army on Rome to stop any uprisings and i was away conquering the English and French, then wham A huge Papal army appears in Rome.

This general was an obscenely good one. Like command rating of 7 which Skilled Attacker skills and Gothic Knights, which obviously proceded to annihilate my army and rampage across europe before i could get back to them.

It was quite fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif