The Hardest Faction?

[Tyrac]

In my first game I was the turks(listed as harder then then the setting but I do not think they are)/early/expert and went full out conquest. By 1180 I had reached a point where it was obvious I was going to win easily and the game was getting very boring. It asked me if I wanted to stop at 60% of the provinces or some such number and be acknowleged as the winner so I did. I used pause in battles and did all the amazing things you can do if you play that way. I auto resolved castle assaults etc. etc. I never even had a bad setback.

In my second game I decided to be the spanish and to Role Play as much as I could. Early/Expert/GA. I have never attacked fellow catholics unless attacked first. I always agree to offers of ceasefire if asked. I have been as obiedient to the Pope as possible to the point of actually taking care of his rebellions etc. I never auto resolve a castle assault (that is cheating I feel). I never hit pause in a battle. I ignore obvious weakness of my neighbors and instead focus on the crusades and other GA objectives.

Still too easy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I have resorted to just playing with the other factions using spies etc to manipulate them while I sit and slowly build my provences etc to see what units come when and look like what.

I have read several other posts like this over the last few weeks. Yes, I could set the game on auto so the AI could build me bad armies to use and Poor building choices. I could also let or help one AI faction become huge and powerful enough to challenge me. I could set all kinds of false handicaps on myself. I would rather not handicap myself in a non-roleplay fashion though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
What I really want is for the game to be hard because it is HARD. I want to sweat and worry that I am going to lose despite that I tried has hard as I could (without useing cheap tricks) to win.

I guess all I am really asking is what is the hardest Faction, timeperiod, etc.?


P.S. and no, I am not going to do the Multi Player. I just cannot twitch fast enough to enjoy it anymore. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Maybe if they come out with a multi player strategy version one day. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Phalanx]

Go into your Early.txt file and set the Novgorod up as a playable faction and fire them up on Expert. Their income stinks. The provinces near them require relatively large armies for extended periods of time in order to get the loyalty up and to stop rebellions. Which means that you are slow to expand. In one case, I left a recently calmed province with a minimal garrison and the rebels from the ajoining province attacked to take it back You need mercenaries to man your armies of occupation, but can barely afford to pay them. This is one of the toughest games I've had ... and now there are 15K GH warriors on my border that I'm hoping will honor the fact that their queen is my King's daughter http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Dr_Who_Regen#4]

I know this probably falls a bit outside of roleplaying, but a way to make the game a bit harder would be to play as the Danes on Expert, thus getting only one starting teritory and then do not open hostilities with any Faction..only the rebels....

The final part to this is to then keep somewhat too large of garrisons on your territories to limit your income. Give the other factions time to grow and gain power for a number of years...something like 20 or more years. This should let them weed out some of the more weaker factions while at the same time your growth should be limited because hopefully with a low income you won't be able to build advanced building with advanced troop types and high numbers of elite troops.

Also not sure how you use Spies and Assasins and the like. Maybe just create a minimal amount of these so as not to use them as a Province conquering weapon. Use them sparingly so as not to gain an advantage.

Also you can get lucky with most any faction if you allow yourself to have an idiot of an Heir who then really blows when they take over as your leader. In otherwords don't assisnate any of your Kin.

I can't take credit for thinking of this method. It more just the way I initially played the game. I didn't realize how easy it was to roll over the other factions so I kept too many defenders and waited for just the right time. By waiting to move on the English until they were about to fall I gave other factions a chance to really grow in strength, and thus be able to beat my miserablly low tech army when they (The Alahomds) attacked me in England because I had been so poor I didn't get particularly far in the tech tree.

In a way its role playing. Why would the Danes think they can be able to smash through one of their powerful neighbors? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Gaius Julius]

Hi,Tyrac http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Why don't you give the Byzantines a try.
You should find them a challenge. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Tyrac]

Early.txt
Wow that opens up a whole new world. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif I am a bit scared to mess with it. But playing the Nov's would rock....where in the file is the thing I change? I looked it over and must have missed it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
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I was looking at doing the danes as my next faction and trying to go pure naval and take only defensive action and attack only rebels.
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Byzantines look pretty easy...but I find myself drawn towards early period where Constantinople is just an amazing place. Would be pretty easy. Did you mean Late Byzan?
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Also, is there any real differance in difficulty between the periods other then you have less time to get things done before the game ends?

[Tyrac]

So make novgorod FT_MAJOR?

[kaaskop]

Yep as easy as that, but there is of course no GA campain
and getting titles from buildings also requires a little more work

[Tyrac]

I copied the russian addoffices and pasted them. Then made the FN_RUSSIAN into FN_NOVGOROD. then changed the things in quotes to more Nov sounding stuff. Is that correct?

[Exile]

The two hardest expert campaigns I played where both in the late period:

HRE-altho a nice sized empire, they have many borders and their neighbors need little encouragement to invade

Polish - from two landlocked provs it is a challenge to rule the world before 1453.

[Gregoshi]

Three is a magic number - Schoolhouse Rock

Big Org welcomes go out to Tyrac, Phalanx, and Dr_Who_Regen#4. Hi folks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Tyrac, you may have to face the fact that you are just too good for the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif One suggestion I have: play the game out to the end. You mentioned you quit your first game at 60% because it was obvious you were going to win. In the early days of the game's release, many thought as you did but decided to press on for the 100% victory. What many encountered were massive revolts against you all across Europe. An in the bag game turned into something less than an sure thing. In your second campaign, it certainly sounds like you introduced some realistic limiters on yourself, though your chosen style may have avoided the fun of ticking off the Pope and getting excommunicated.

If no remedy works, try some of the excellent suggestions made by others: mods, Danes, HRE, Poland, etc.

[Lord Romulous]

i think the danes should pose a suitable challange.

you should also never take adavantage of the edges of the maps when defending.


if you play the danes and play fairly on the battlefield as above you should have quite a challange.

or of course u could just be too good in which case i suggust you limit your self to 5 unit armies when invading and max of 5 in each provencee.

try winning the game with that limit

[Red Emperor the Invincible]

Well i have same problem as yours... trying diffenrent as you may, your ultimate aim ir to win as quickas pssbl without any compromise such as ''give them time to grow..is that fun?. playing as dane and polish is not hard enough ccause they re next to HRE which is weakedly guarded and rich. i almost master of map by 1400 or less....CA should make AI more responsible for interest of our game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[keet]

Yeah, conquering is one thing, holding on is another.

I thought I had a sure win with the Egyptians. I had the east, all the Med, Africa, The north, and the greater Italian area. The Germans held the middle and the biggest(last) threat was from the Spanish.

Then, the Byzintines reappeared big time and blew through the back door. The Spanish ammassed a huge army from loyalists, the Germans had a huge crusade, and I started to have revolts(killed too many prisoners).

To make matters worse, my cash flow dropped to negative.

Suddenly my armies were divided and I had to go totally defensive and without money for reinformements.

So play on, this game has alot of surprises

[LadyAnn]

Play the Pole in Early (post patch). You won't have Polish Retainers in early anymore, making those Pole quite weak. It will be a challenge. The economy is quite difficult to get up (no native port, you must conquer those teutonic rebels to have access to ports), your neighbors are no fun (RHE in the West is a mamoth and a fellow catholic, the Byzantines will bribe their way through, and when pressed by Turkey, will move North, the danes just came and create rebels, the Mongols flood you waves of invasion.

Annie

[Basileus]

I think HRE is the toughest one of the playable factions...might be big but when evryone turns against you and you dont have any good generals your in a situation...its maneable but still i think its one of the toughest

[Geoffrey_FiztRogers]

Grrrrrrrrr
Ok I tried the novogrod fation. How the hell are you suppose to win. Lavonia is to strong if I move into an easier province lavonia attacks. I can't build and support an army without going broke. Grrrrr. I guess I should ask that invincable guy . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif he takes over the world in less than 50 turns

[Red Emperor the Invincible]

american go bankrupt

[Red Emperor the Invincible]

to avoid being broke you only wage war... remember Alexander the Great (i guess same kind with me) was outnumber by 10 before blood persia and he still win.
try what you thing impssbl

[Tyrac]

Hmmm. I do use the map edge alot in Battle. Never even crossed my mind not too. That would add a nice and realistic challenge to fighting the AI. I will stop using it. Thanks.

[Red Harvest]

My vote for a challenge is Poland, with the Danes 2nd. The Danes seem a bit easier because of trade, but my main trouble with Poland has been because of crusades passing through. With 3 crusades passing through my territory at the *same time*, it took some masterful manipulation to keep my better units and generals out of my enemy's crusade--particularly since the AI crusade routing allows it to do things that I'm never allowed to do. Pretty soon I got tired of all the dancing and targeted any territory with a chapter house...build a chapter house and I'll invade...

[Phalanx]

Quote[/b] (Geoffrey_FiztRogers @ Jan. 17 2003,18:04)]Grrrrrrrrr
Ok I tried the novogrod fation. How the hell are you suppose to win. Lavonia is to strong if I move into an easier province lavonia attacks. I can't build and support an army without going broke. Grrrrr. I guess I should ask that invincable guy . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif he takes over the world in less than 50 turns
I feel your pain ... and since it was my idea, let me give you some things I did in my Novo campaign:

First, you need to get your economy up. You are going to need the income. Build the farm improvements.

Boyars should form the basis of your armies at the start (you are going to need to take your heirs into combat until you can make them yourself). With the exception of the Lithuanian Cav in the Lithuanian Rebel Army, nothing else can even come close to cathing you in the rebel armies.

Your melee troops need to be Vikings. They outclass anything else you will face in the local populace.

I always leave behind 200 spearmen and the governor of Novgorod when I go out to take a province. Have your King lead the Army and make sure you have 600+ men. In most cases you are facing 100-300 spearmen/peasants. If you build an Inn, you can add some additional merc Cavalry units to spare your Vikings some direct combat, but peasant charges are a good way to get some Vikings with high valour (I had about 6 with 7-9 valour) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The reason you need 600-700 men in your King's Army is not to win the fight, but to occupy the province for 5-6 years to keep rebellion in check. I was averaging about one province every eight years. In those eight years you can build watchtowers, 20% farmland and a fort. Pick your most able leader (loyalty 5, accumen 4 ... in that order. If not available, 5 loyalty, highest accumen) to run the province, give him 200 spearman (that you built back at home in the intervening years) and then move to the next province. IMPORTANT: After moving the King's army and leaving behind 260 troops, check the loyalty of the province. Adjust taxes as necessary, or delay the King's departure by a year to add another 100 spearman.

Finland: Once I took Finland, I made the #1 goal to get a port and ship to see if I could take Sweden (unless the Danes were already there). They were not, so my best heir loaded up an Army and off he went. You DON'T want to send the King, because until a port is contructed in Sweden, your Empire is without his influence and rebellions come quick and hard in your part of the map. Get Sweden set up as a trade center and you can use the Iron deposits for improved weapons.

Bribery: I bribed the Lithuanian Army. As quick as rebellions come, buying troops is just as easy. For 1800-2300 Florins you can buy enough troops to hold down a province. You would have to spend as much on troops/mercenaries to defeat those same guys. Make sure to get one of your high loyalty units in the stack so they don't get turned by someone else, since bribery seems to add the flexible morals vice. If the ex-rebel commander has a command rating and your loyal unit does not, either disband the turned unit(especially if he is a peasant), or move him into your King's army where his command will never play a role. It appears that if all units in a stack have a zero for command, the most powerful and/or loyal is given command of the stack. Placing your provincial governer in the stack, provided all have zero command will immediately place the stack under his command. Since he was a 5 loyalty (see above), internal rebellions should never be an issue.

Finally, expand slowly (one province at a time) and realize you will never be a real powerhouse. Form an alliance with the GH, the Byz and anyone else that arrives from the south. Your prime targets of opportunity are the Poles and the Danes, especially if you have control of the Baltic Sea.

[Tyrac]

Starting my Nov campange Today http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif