Hashishin

[DemonArchangel]

well, i can't post in the main hall yet, but how do you use Hashishins properly? And also what would be a good mainstay for a muslim faction

[Mithrandir]

Welcome to The Org DemonArchangel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

To answer your question :
You dont use hasihiananhasaian...first of all their name is too hard, second of all they get beaten by every other unit, they get outshot by archers, get beaten by cav without problems, and normal inf. will beat them as well...

As for the muslim army set up :

V3 saracen infantry, 2
V3 Nubian Spearman,3
V2 W1 Muwahid ,2
V2 A1 napta thrower,2
V2 Armenian/Gulam Cavelry (including gen),3
V3 W1 camels (if egyptians),2
V2 W1 Mameluk cav archers,1 (if turks ?)
V1 A2 pav arbs,3

My turk army is quite different, jan inf archers are good, JHI V1 are great, and they have a decent selection of other archers (esp. in early), however Turks suck vs Pav arb heavy armies...


Hope this helped...

-Mithrandir.

[Exile]

There's a thread in the monastery where I asked this question..I think it was LadyAnn who suggested to place the Hasshshaiinnhan in advance and to the side of your main unit. Then bring them around upon the rear of the enemy formation. I haven't tried it myself yet...

I think the mainstay for muslim armies is Saracen infantry. A few Ghazis (or Abyssians for Egypt) or Almo Urban Militia (a great unit) for the Almos. Mamluk units for the Eqyptians and the Turks have many good units - I like the Ottoman Infantry and some of their unique calvary units. For Almo and Eqpyians, desert archers are superior to regular archers, but later in then game when facing high armor opponenents you may want arbalesters instead. Khawzzzz.. calvary are a good heavy calvary for Egypt and Turks.
You'll need superior tactics and numbers to beat the Christian armies in the high-late era.

[DemonArchangel]

thanks

[Hosakawa Tito]

Hi DemonArchangel, I haven't used Hashishin in my Turkish campaign yet. You have to really tech up to reach them, and I have just started to train my first unit of them, they take 2 years to train. I think Mith may be refering to using them in multiplayer, which is really a different game from the single player campaigns. I hope they play like the 12 man Ninja units in the Shogun Warlord Edition. Those were fun to use. They could hide in plain site, and were not visible to the enemy till they got very close. I used them to target the enemy general and snuff him out before the AI knew what hit him. They also made great scouts to locate the enemy army and check out his defenses.

[Herodotus]

Think of them as a battefield assasin. In fact the word assasin comes from Hashishin, the Europeans took the word home from the Crusades and used it to describe their own paid murderers. The hashishins were kept loyal by their addiction to hash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif (probably laced with opium), when they were sent out (to kill) they would go without any hash which made them stressed, angry and eager to get the job done quickly.

[Alrowan]

gah... i love hashishins.. so fur my general skull coun with them is getting close to 10 in 15 battles. Basically you have to turn off thier fire at will and skirmish modes, and use them in ambush. Wait till the enemy general passes them, and hit hard and fast. i should really find one of my good replays to show you

[Aleborg]

Hi Demon.
Im agree with Hosakawa, i use hashishins like ninjas in STW.
Protect them carefuly until you are in the main battle, then is nice round with them and shoot the enemy general, it works really nice.
In online battles with 2vs2 or 3vs3 i think is easy to use and very funny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
With so many units in the battlefield is easy to move them secretly and hunt some unawares units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
In 1vs1 battles there are also funny, but a bit dangerous coz u loose an unit of 100/60/40 mens, always important in the main battle.
Anyhow, i use them sometimes and really enjoy it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Ale

[A.Saturnus]

I would say Hshiishinishsh are not a battle winning unit but fun to use. Look for some thread to hear my best story about them. They are also very cheap in upkeep (cause they are so few) but they are maybe the only unit in SP where I would consider building costs more important than upkeep.

[Demon of Light]

First I'd like to welcome my fellow Demon. I find it interesting that we have complementary names(I promise I didn't plan that)
I have my own personal anecdote on Hashishin to share:

My first experience with Hashishin was when I had to maybe 5 groups of them in battle once against the AI. One unit of these guys tore new anal entrances into 100 feudal seargents. I watched in stupified horror as my troops were depleted 4 or 5 people at a time( although in fairness I should point out that a second group entered the fray about 15 seconds into it. No comfort to the 81 dead sergents though) The next group that had the dubious pleasure of engaging these guys was a group of 36 Kwarazmian Cavalry. I charged head on into a single group of Hashishin and emerged from that engagement with 8 routed Kwarazmian and 6 dead Hashishin. I evntually won but these guys didn't flee until there were 2 groups of two left.

If anyone is interested, I could tell you what the results were when I fought custom battles against 48 units of Hashishin using various troop compositions.

[Shahed]

i think there should be more syrian restaurants with belly dancers in these parts of the world. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Gregoshi]

Greetings Demon of Light. I suppose it is appropriate that a bunch of demons would show up to talk about Hashishin. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[DemonArchangel]

well. figures doesn't it, i just used the drugged up hash babies in an online battle(IPX), damn they were sweet, Nizaris and Ghazis pale in comparison to them. Well anyway, a historical note, Hashishin were made into fanatical killers not by mental, physical and religous indoctrination, but because of http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif hash laced with opium. The resulting addiction would make them do anything for hash, including killing themselves or others. (Just like modern junkies breaking into homes to steal TV's and cash to sell so they can get more drugs.

[Grothgar]

Hashishin is a great unit to use http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Yes they are like Battlefield Ninjas, which i once used to kill off about 200 Spearmen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I happen to have the Strategy Guide and you should see the morale Value of these beasts. the natural morale is 12, thats amazing, far more than any other unit. Which meansif under a good commander they will just no break, they are useful to hold back a charge while you get your units into position although this is expensive http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Also they are fast, almost as fast as camel units when running.

[LadyAnn]

How to use Hashishins:
1. let them smoke a bit before battle
2. Hide them in woods so they can smoke in privacy
3. target low morale troops
4. Turns off autofiring and skimish (hold position instead) so they will be able to wait longer.

These guys have good combat skills, and despite only 12 in number, they could be a very fun unit to play with. Just don't keep them out in the open nor let them run down by cavalry.

Annie

[A.Saturnus]

Yes, the point is, except their high building cost and low number, they don`t have any disandvantages. One thing to try: look for some rebel province with thousands of peasants. Then take half as much Hash units as there are peasant units and slaughter them. Should give you incredable high valour and skilled risky attacks

[Alrowan]

ahh.. peasants vs hash... hehe... i know who wins http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif