Help with spear/pike/whatever men...

[Rowan11088]

OK, I think I must be using my spearmen and the like wrong. Right now I just got attacked out of the blue by the Hungarians and the Italians, and I have to fight against both of them at once. THey have a slight numerical advantage, but most of their army is archers, horse archers, mounted crossbowmen, etc. Anyway, I'm in Austria and have some sweet hills to mount a defense on. I set up my feudal sergeants in front in rows, 3-4 ranks deep like it says you should. I put the spearmen behind them as a last resort, put militia sergeants all around to charge with, and some peasants behind for good measure. I also have 80 archers in back. ANyway, as they charge up the hill at me (very steep), I have one group of feudal sergeants charge down at the militia sergeants. Easy victory, they get creamed. But then, when I have them charge at horse archers, my sergeants get creamed Why? it says they defend well against cavalry I thought maybe the problem was that they were charging at them instead of stricly defending, so I let another group of mounted crossbowmen slam uphill into my feudal sergeants. The feudal sergeants didn't seem to really fight much. When I put my cursor over them they were standing, not fighting, and it looked like only the first row was sort of fighting, and on top of that they were losing...what's with this? How do I get them to defend against cavalry?

[Major Robert Dump]

--If they had already been fighting, as you mentioned, then they were tired. And if they moved down the hill to engage, then they now had to go back UP hill to get back in to position and that hurts morale.

--Usually, only the front ranks engage in battle unless the unit is also being attacked on the side or the rear.

--Defensive units like spears-whether attacking or defending-should mostly be left on hold formation, not engage at will. Put them on engage at will once they have begun to break the enemy line and they will spead out a bit and mop up on their own. Hold formation lowers their manueverability.

--Try to keep the cheaper defensive units like spearmen in the front and create a wall of spears for the enemy to breach. Use your better spearmen to flank the units once they are engaged and or to charge thru any holes in your wall of spears. Always keep the peasants in the rear and use only as a last resort...the only exception being to put them on the front line to absorb arrow damage, just be sure and pull them back before someone can engage them in melee where they are sure to lose(unless they are also fighting peasants, then its a crapshoot)

--and last, just because a units stats say it is good or bad against something does not mean it is the god given gospel. Spears kill horses, but if the spears are tired and wounded and get flanked then they don't do so hot. Valour and morale also come into play. Units that do well against armor aren't guaranteed to slaughter every armored unit they encounter, there are many factors to consider.

This is not a rock-paper-scissors game. And remember, flank flank flank.

[Major Robert Dump]

And one other thing....

Some units are prone to charging without orders when the enemy gets too close, their description sometimes says this. But when you are totally kicking the crap out of a unit or army, sometimes units will chase them down even if they are not one of the predesignated prone-to-charge units. this happens when you are impetuous and kicking butt. Sometimes you'll have to click more then once to get them back into position.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] ]This is not a rock-paper-scissors game. And remember, flank flank flank.


Excellent advice from Major Rober Dump in general, and specifically the line above.

Total War is NOT a rock-paper-scissors game, despite whatever comments you may read to the contrary. There are many mitigating factors, such as fatigue.

P.S., please don't make negtive comments regarding the game, such as ...they're broken, unless you know this for a fact and can document the ascertion.

It's just not considerate to the developers who put a lot of work into trying to bring us the best game they can; and are very generous with their time and efforts in the .org.

Nothing is perfect and in most cases its the Player that's broken. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Major Robert Dump]

Thanks Toranaga http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I haven't been able to play lately so I've been playing armchair quarterback while reading all the posts LOL

Maybe I should put that one in my sig http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Gregoshi]

Dump, not if I use it for my sig first... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Geoffrey_FiztRogers]

Also do not forget that fi they have mostly archers the chances are they are peppering your men with arrows and lowering their morale

[R'as al Ghul]

Can't add much.
What matters though is the Comparison of the stars of the
Generals.
Yesterday the sole unit of Kataphracts {8 Star General} who came alone to the battle managed to route the four or five units {spear, arrow, camels,gazi..} of my six Star General.
I had him surrounded downhill in the woods http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Well, check it before the battle so you know what to expect.

[Major Robert Dump]

HEHE i remember now Greg, you had a poem about humpty dumpty I wanted to use...we can trade, ok? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif I forgot about that Dump. You are such a good guy with a great sense of humour, you can have both. I've decided my sig is needed for business purposes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

theres a marrige propose'all if ever ive heard one.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif