battle formations

[Heraclius]

ANyone out there (especially you Byzantophiles) care to describe your standard defensive battle tactics? I put archers (treb, byz cav) in front, first line of medium infantry (byz infantry, spearmen) a little bit behind with ends curved so it is difficult to be flanked. Then heavy infantry shock troops (VGs&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif to deliver the crushing blow with heavy (kataphraktoi, pronoiar) and light (alan, steppe) cavalry on the wings to flank and chase down pesky archers, finally a reserve of heavy cavalry and my general in the rear to commit to battle in desperate situations. Its worked out pretty well but I'd like to hear other ideas or confirmations of my strategies. Post away please.


Au revoir, mes amis

[burma_mtw]

Defense --- 4 ranged units, 7 infantry, 2 heavy cavalry, 2 light cavalry, 1 general.

Move everybody except 1 each of heavy cav and light cav back from their starting positions and up to high ground if available. Something like this:

G
HC I RU RU RU RU I LC
I I I I I

Place one HC as far forward and to the left as possible and one LC ar far forward and to the right as possible. Or vice versa. When the battle starts, move the forward cavalry behind the attackers, wait for them to move forward, and take out any siege units. Then use them to attack from the rear when needed.

The main force waits for the attackers to move forward, lets the ranged units do their thing and attacks when and where appropriate.

Offense. Eight or ten units of infantry, the rest Cav. Use the Cav to flank left and right and move the infantry straight at the defenders.

Boring but effective. Eventually, you will find that winning battles is commonplace if prepared properly. That is when you start to play around with different units and unit combinations which is much more fun.

[desdichado]

Heraclius,

yes me again. A tactic I have been trying lately is to load up one flank and keep the other to a minimum. My centre is generally my weakest point hence I have spearmen set to hold (and general behind them for morale boost). Basically my idea is to crush one of the AI's flanks hoping to cause a general rout or to bring some units into rear Ai battle line while hoping (praying) my other flank holds - its worked well but is a bit risky as opposite flanks can rout at same time and both armies end up wheeling about the centre units - which turns into an ugly brawl.

I am still trying to refine this ie. have my weak flank survive longer.

I think your strategy is sound but as burma_mtw says it can get a bit boring. Try laying some ambushes although there seems to be a debate about whether the AI can see hidden units. Experiment with different formations once you have got your basic strategy right and you may come up with something that works better.

[Elwe]

Byzantines: Out of preference I created individual 'Legion' stacks as a generic army that I could assign one of my generals to lead. Each army consisted of 5 Byz Inf, 5 Treb/Arbs, 2 Byz Cav, 2 Poronoi(sp?) and a unit of Varangian Guard. The army would generaly have a unit of Kataphraktoi as well (the general).

Against most enemies, these armies worked very well, both defence and offence. I never bothered with spearmen, as the Byz Inf always seemed to hold nicely against enemy heavy cav anyway (when on hold orders), at least long enough for my Proronoi to flank the enemy.

The setup was pretty much as you descripned, but with missile units behind the infantry on hold ground orders. THis way they are protected from the enemy, and give 'flank' support to the front line. General and VG are behind as a reserve (helps to protect them from enemy archery as well).

Byz cav always range ahead and out on one flank. Their task is to take out any artillery left behind by the enemy, and then harrass enemy cavalry them as they advance. Once the grand melee is joined, the Byz cav would come in from behind to close the trap.

Doesn't always work, but worked a LOT.

Cheers.

[NateEngle]

> ANyone out there (especially you Byzantophiles) care to describe your standard defensive battle tactics? I put archers (treb, byz cav) in front, first line of medium infantry (byz infantry, spearmen) a little bit behind with ends curved so it is difficult to be flanked. Then heavy infantry shock troops (VGs to deliver the crushing blow with heavy (kataphraktoi, pronoiar) and light (alan, steppe) cavalry on the wings to flank and chase down pesky archers, finally a reserve of heavy cavalry and my general in the rear to commit to battle in desperate situations. Its worked out pretty well but I'd like to hear other ideas or confirmations of my strategies. Post away please.

The Roman author Vegetius (as plagiarized by Machiavelli in his The Art of War) advised that you should arrange your troops so that your first rank can fall back easily into your 2nd, and both into the 3rd. I typically run infantry-heavy armies, so my 3 ranks are based on that model - spear, sword, & bow - and the choice of which one stands in front depends mostly on what my opponent has. If you're facing mostly cavalry, put the spears in front. If you're facing spearmen, put the swords in front. If you're facing slow-moving troops, put the bows in front.

When you're facing a mix of units (which is the case more often than not) I'll typically put spears out in front, with swords close behind ready to come up quickly if the enemy swordsmen approach too closely. Then the archers stand behind that and focus their fire on whatever units my melee troops find the most challenging.

Ultimately your battle plan depends at least as much on what the enemy has (and what he does with it) as it does on your own tactical doctrine. As was advised by Sun Tzu in his Art of War, Test your enemies to discover where they are sufficient and where they are lacking. Then attack them where they are lacking.

[bf109k]

Heraclius...
I like the idea of making one flank stronger than the other... with the plan of smashing one side of their assault... then actually turning their flank.. just make sure the weaker sections of your line are strong enough to not completely break... I used this tactic w/ success w/ the HRE... my bait sections to to speak would commonly consist of feudal serg's or spearmen(would have to do w/ Byzantium) I also like keeping my cavalry near the flanks also... and after the enemy engages your line... flank then w/ the horses and attack in the rear.. even if you must take losses while your cavalry is in motion... when they attack from behind particulary(even more so if they are heavy like byz kat's) they just tear the enemy apart
as far as archers I like to keep them safely behind my lines of inf. using broad thin formations to allow more men to fire.. hope these ideas help

[Exile]

I like to have my front line all Byz infantry (i dont bother with spears as Byz) with VG behind in the center and flanks and Trebizond Archers behind. My calvary - Katas and Pronoii I positon of the flanks. I usually have one catapult with each army.

BI BI BI BI BI BI
KATA VG TA TA TA TA VG KATA
Catatpult & general

I use the general to hold the center if needed, to chase down routers, to hit the enemy when they're about to crumble and as a last resort at the flank if it gets hit hard. I try to commit the Gen. everybattle to avoid 'Not so Bold' but I usually don't risk them unless I'm in trouble or the unit is tough as nails (high valor)

Against the Golden Horde I always deploy in the woods with my archers on the edge.

[Asus]

There are many good formations depending on the period you play and if you got heavy on infantry or horse. I ran across a web site which explained some historical deployments and if I can find it again I will post a link here.

[SmokWawelski]

You do that Asus

As far as tactics, I think that the standard spears/archers/cav on the flanks formation works for everybody. The idea with one flank stronger then the other is good, I will try to use it, to make the games and battles less repetative...

[Dimeola]

I also look at the terrain and wether my allies protect my flanks. Be flexible enough to respond to a new situation. I like to put my least reliable troops in the center with a solid heavy behind them....and reliable unit on each flank.
Dimeolas