can't we all just kill each other

[props2me]

Can't we all just kill each other. I hope not. If we all kill each other we won't be able to get along. I do think going into Iraq is a good thing. I don't think the topple of Saddams regime wiltake more than 2 weeks. But we'll have to stay there for at least 1-2 years. That was just a thought and I just want to see what other people think about the situation.

Every body give props to...
me

[Gregoshi]

Eh, not sure what to make of your first three sentences. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I'd have to agree with you about the need and the 1-2 years staying there. What bothers me is that too few of the other countries around the world seem to agree. I'd feel much better if there was stronger Arab support. I'm not sure what France's game is (other than money). They paid a very high price in WW II for appeasing a dictator.

Anyway, we've just had some rather hot discussions about this in the Tavern forum which has worn many people down on this subject so I'm not sure how much response you're going to get. But you got my 2 cents, for what its worth.

[Tyrac]

There has been no disscussion from the Bush administration about any specific plans etc. for the occupation of Iraq. This is what scares me the most, more then all concerns about the US as the only super power, unchecked, Arab or European political and popular support. It is one thing to crush a vastly weaker nation in two weeks it is quite another to occupy and REBUILD said country. You cannot simply go in kill a million or so Iraqies (again) and remove Saddam H. and then leave or you have yet another Afganistan. You would need an occupation in the style of the American occupation of Japan after WW2. 1-2 years? no try 5-10. And I do not think this administration has the fortitude to tell the American people this. And if they did I think it would really hurt the support for military action.

[jayrock]

i'm sure they have a plan for post war iraq, though your right he doesn't want to tell the us public about it.. because if we stay, and we kinda have to if we invade. i'd say more like 10 to 20 years. my personal hope(btw ain't gonna happen) is after they secure iraq, they need to pull out and let someone neutral step in and enforxe the peace so to speak. i think they'll be bitterness and animosity for years if we stay, probrably have to get used to a steady stream of casualties for years, from rebelions and such...

[Alrowan]

gah.. how quickly we forget history....

ok, first thing, war with iraq will be quick, and at a high price for the civillians, this is the first negative for a war...

the other fact is what will the US do with Iraq when they are done.. personally i tihnk whatever they do will drop the price of oil, but the biggest problem is this, history has a real way of slapping you in the face. I wonder how many people realise why saddam is even in power in the first place... basically because he helped in the overthrow of the english supported government.

The biggest problem the Us will face if they insist on occupying iraq will basically be the people. i highly doubt that many of the civillians will want a foregin rule imposed over them, and chances are you will see more US soldiers killed after the occupation than before... then who's to say that another madman wont take power when the US leave, because when they leave there will be a huge power vaccum...

face it, in the end it will be the US who loses out in the long run, the helped cause muslim terrorism, and now they are only just finding out whats its done for them (go take a look at the training of terrorists during the cold war.. the US taught them everything they know)

[eddie0909]

i think we should crush iraq to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[eddie0909]

And we shoud do it in a humane way.to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[A.Saturnus]

let`s just join the voluntary human extiction movement http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Gregoshi]

You first... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Sorry, couldn't resist. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[JANOSIK007]

For one thing Iraqies are just as human like rest of us. They have been hur mostly by this whole ordeal. And if U.S. is going to attack Iraq again another millions of people is going to die. What most of you probably don't know is the circumstances of the conlusion of the Gulf War. Rebels were overtaking the country so Saddam asked for support from U.S. and he got it. The war was over, millions of people dead, Saddam is payed up and loaded with weapons from U.S.. Their agreement was going all to well until Saddam kicked out the U.N. inspectors. Another thing is that the hundred-thousand army invasion of Kuwait, as Georgy claimed, was something over a dozen tanks and armored vehicles. Well at least Georgy got to test his new weapons, especially the missles made out of radioactive plutonium, and this breaks the Geneva Agreement if any one cares. One thing is for certain, people will never know the whole truth

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Feb. 12 2003,13:59)]For one thing Iraqies are just as human like rest of us.
Sadly, some people forget this. Maybe because their coutnry doesn't have a recent war in their own ground (were the civilians get hurt the most). It's a different thing when the bombs are falling in the other side of the planet... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Havok]

Quote[/b] ]U.S. is going to attack Iraq again another millions of people is going to die.

The only way that many people will die is if Saddam kills them himself. In 2 months from now all you Liberals and Anti-war crowd will be singing a different tune.

How many Civilans died in Afganastan???? no where near a million or even 100,000. 90% of Saddams army wont even fight. Hell i wont be surprised if Saddams own Republic Guard kills him before we get to him. heres a couple quote's you might find interesting from the Iraqi's themselves.


Quote[/b] ]“In 1991 Saddam killed 500,000 people when they rose against him. Nobody demonstrated against him then. But now the United States wants to get rid of the dictator, people are demonstrating against it.”
-one of the Iraqi liberation soldiers the U.S. is training at Camp Freedom in Hungary


Quote[/b] ]“I am surprised to hear of all the anti-war demonstrations in the West. I wish that the demonstrators could spend just 24 hours in the place I have come from and see the reality of Iraq. Fourteen lost years of my life. Nothing but bread for food — darkness, filth, beatings, torture, killings, bitterness and humiliation.”
-Rafat Abdulmajeed Muhammad, jailed for selling a roll of film to an British journalist


Quote[/b] ]Don't these marchers know that the only march possible in Iraq under Saddam Hussein is from the prison to the firing-squad? he asked. The Western marchers behave as if the US wanted to invade Switzerland, not Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
Khalid Kishtaini, Iraq's most famous satirical writer


here's an article from the very liberal anti-Bush BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2775981.stm

here's another from a more Right-wing point of view
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-taheri022603.asp

People will die when we invade. there's no doubt about it. But that will pave the way for thousands and thousands to be free.

Like i said in the begining of this post. In a couple months you all will be singing a different tune. you'll see


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Tigger]

Have to say that i'm totally opposed to war as are the majority of people outside the US.

It comes down to whether or not the world will be a safer place after a war and at what point are you justified in attacking another country.

Firstly I believe that war in Iraq will be great for Alquida (how do you spell it anyway?) and will mean that the many people in the muslim world will hate the US and the West even more than now therefore producing lots more terrorist recruits. You can't stop terrorism by invading a country anyway, terrorists are stateless as we know and you don't need chemical weapons for terrorism either as we've all seen so horrifcally.

Secondly as to being justfied for an attack I just don't think there is enough evidence yet of an alleged threat for this (it sets a dangerous president this premptive strike business, basically it could be used as an excuse for attacking whatever country pisses you off

As for helping the Iraqi people give me a break, Bush doesn't give a flying fxxk about this

Now before I get flamed I'm not an appeaser nor do I hate America, Saddam is an evil dictator who the world could do without I just think the cons out way the pros of war. I also understand that Sep 11th means a lot of people feel very strongly about these issues but feeling strongly doesn't mean that war is the answer,

any fool can make war but thinking about why so many people in the world seem to hate America and what can be done about it in the future to prevent more people joing alquida or other terrorist groups would be the more constructive approach and could help to change things longer term - a more equitable approach to the Israeli conflict would be a start and pushing both sides towards the peace that almost happened when Rabin & Clinton were in power..

[JANOSIK007]

Quote[/b] (Tigger @ Mar. 05 2003,10:03)]Have to say that i'm totally opposed to war as are the majority of people outside the US.

It comes down to whether or not the world will be a safer place after a war and at what point are you justified in attacking another country.

Firstly I believe that war in Iraq will be great for Alquida (how do you spell it anyway?) and will mean that the many people in the muslim world will hate the US and the West even more than now therefore producing lots more terrorist recruits. You can't stop terrorism by invading a country anyway, terrorists are stateless as we know and you don't need chemical weapons for terrorism either as we've all seen so horrifcally.

Secondly as to being justfied for an attack I just don't think there is enough evidence yet of an alleged threat for this (it sets a dangerous president this premptive strike business, basically it could be used as an excuse for attacking whatever country pisses you off

As for helping the Iraqi people give me a break, Bush doesn't give a flying fxxk about this

Now before I get flamed I'm not an appeaser nor do I hate America, Saddam is an evil dictator who the world could do without I just think the cons out way the pros of war. I also understand that Sep 11th means a lot of people feel very strongly about these issues but feeling strongly doesn't mean that war is the answer,

any fool can make war but thinking about why so many people in the world seem to hate America and what can be done about it in the future to prevent more people joing alquida or other terrorist groups would be the more constructive approach and could help to change things longer term - a more equitable approach to the Israeli conflict would be a start and pushing both sides towards the peace that almost happened when Rabin & Clinton were in power..
I am right there with you Tigger. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Dimeola]

Firstly, I think war should always be the final solution. But there are times when it is the only way. Personally I think Saddam is playing a very deadly game, much as Hitler did at the beginning of ww2. He is playing all of us and trying to wriggle his way out of it. Too many people are trying too hard to find the smallest bit to show Iraq is cooperating. If Iraq were taking care of their responsibility as required by the UN there would be no question in anyone`s mind.
I also do not believe in the US being the world`s policeman. But what we all need to look at honestly is this: what is the likely outcome if we do NOT hold the line here? If we go soft here what will they get away with? And what will the consequences be? Not only for the US, but for other countries. The question to me is not about US conduct but why doesnt Iraq fullfill its obligations completely , fully, and openly.
I dont want war. But this is no longer a regional issue. While I respect the opinions of those who are against action in Iraq, I think they are wrong. I honestly think that if we do not take care of this now there will be disastrous concequences later.

[Swordsman]

While I personally would like the President to show some definitive info on the presence of WMD, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of a doubt. There MAY be a good reason why he can't present it.

But let's be real about casualties-- millions,like the last time? -- puhleeze, those numbers weren't even APPROACHED by either side or all together. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

At any rate, looks like not if but when.

[Heraclius]

I have to say I have heard not one convincing reason for the US to invade Iraq. Not one. If you want my opinion there are two threats to world peace at this time: one is President George W. Bush and the other is North Korea. I find it odd that one is being praised (in the US at least and say Bulgaria and Estonia as well) and the other ignored while the United States goes after a third party.

[shingen]

can't only laught at what You are saying,
it's unbelievable what's happening, it's a shame like i had never seen, when nations, expecially if these nations are some of the most politically influent and powerfull of the world decide to encroach on most basilar international rights all the world should stop and think about what's happening.
here in italy i see my defense minister dressed like a soldier and i feel a shame like i had never felt, he's a minister shit he's not a soldier he's a minister
there are so many point of contact on how we conduct international political manners and how we did in 30's.

americans you have no more right on the world more than chinese, russians, french, germans, spanish, egyptians, brasilians, ecc.
you have no right to launch an attack as you want, or better, you could also have it, but then ONU should act with restrictions as with every other country.
your donald rumsfield has no right at all, he should not have mouth if what he produce is what we hear, but, what the hell of right he has to talk this way about france?
i was really embarassed when berlusconi won in italy, i am also now, but, damn, we have a buffoon, you have a dangerous buffoon.

sorry but people don't consider that they are not playing, this is not MTW