hitler

[props2me]

I am not one that respects Hitler for what he did to the Jews or any other groups. But I do think he was a great speaker. This is one of Hitlers speeches after he invaded Poland. He made the Germans sound like they were the victims and that that was the only way to deal with the Polish. You don't have to go to this but I thought it might be a good thing to see a different side of things.

go to hitler.org/speeches/10-06-39.html

Every Body give props 2...
me

[Gregoshi]

I read John Toland's massive Adolf Hitler back in college. He was a very persuasive speaker who put every ounce of energy he had into his speeches. He was always drenched in sweat after giving a speech. It is really a shame all that ability and passion was so horribly mis-directed.

This may sound rather silly, but I obtained a used copy of Meine Kampf about 20 years ago after reading Adolf Hitler. It still sits on my shelf unread. One of the reasons I never started reading the book was a worry about Hitler's persuasiveness. What if I read the book and ended up think Hitler was right? It seems a silly notion, especially since I'm a very rational person not prone to persuasion by politcal leaders. But the book remains unread, nontheless. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Gaius Julius]

Quote[/b] (props2me @ Feb. 08 2003,22:20)]He made the Germans sound like they were the victims and that that was the only way to deal with the Polish.
IMO, Hitler was the right man, at the right time, for the wrong reasons.

Germany after the WW1, beaten, depressed, humiliated.
The time was ripe for someone to emerge to restore Teutonic pride.
Along comes Hitler, using the oldest trick in the book finger-pointing.
Convinces the German people that it's this group, or that group that's the cause of all their misery.
The rest is a tragic moment in history, where millions of people lost their lives.

My advice to you props2me, don't buy into this idea of Hitler as the grand orater.
He was nothing but a snake-oil salesman.

[eddie0909]

Im a german but i was born in the U.S but hitler was SELF RICHEST PRESONE that was a very good speker still he killed alot of pepol.And he expermented on people to over all he was a basterd ok http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif

[Longshanks]

Hitler was a political genius, too bad he was also a madman.

[Kongamato]

For more info on the oratory skills of Hitler, check out the film Triumph of the Will, a 1935 footage film of Hitler's speeches and the New Germany of the 1930s.

Disclaimer: I have not seen this and am not a Nazi.

[eddie0909]

Not a Nazi very funny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[jayrock]

he was very charasmatic, saw a few movies of him, man he could whip a crowd into a frenzy, i think the main reason he did so well, was that he gave germans back their pride after ww1, still a loon, not defending him.. he was just a very good orator,

[[DnC]]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Feb. 09 2003,00:10)]I read John Toland's massive Adolf Hitler back in college. He was a very persuasive speaker who put every ounce of energy he had into his speeches. He was always drenched in sweat after giving a speech. It is really a shame all that ability and passion was so horribly mis-directed.

This may sound rather silly, but I obtained a used copy of Meine Kampf about 20 years ago after reading Adolf Hitler. It still sits on my shelf unread. One of the reasons I never started reading the book was a worry about Hitler's persuasiveness. What if I read the book and ended up think Hitler was right? It seems a silly notion, especially since I'm a very rational person not prone to persuasion by politcal leaders. But the book remains unread, nontheless. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Just think about all the crimes he had commited (well ordered to be commited) and then you'll know he's still wrong.

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Feb. 09 2003,00:10)]This may sound rather silly, but I obtained a used copy of Meine Kampf about 20 years ago after reading Adolf Hitler. It still sits on my shelf unread. One of the reasons I never started reading the book was a worry about Hitler's persuasiveness. What if I read the book and ended up think Hitler was right? It seems a silly notion, especially since I'm a very rational person not prone to persuasion by politcal leaders. But the book remains unread, nontheless. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
When I was in school one of our history teachers gave us some pages of Mein Kampf to read and discuss during class. This was about 15 years ago and I do not remember the exact details, but the passage we read was about the necessary expansion to the East and the impression I got was that he was quite a looney.
At least in this book you did not get the impression that he was a rhetorically profound person but some weird guy who put his weird dreams to paper.

The book itself is forbidden in Germany and cannot be purchased here - I guess one could argue quite extensively if this is a good decision, personally I believe it is OK not to make it freely available but I wish its contents would be discussed more extensively in school to destroy some of the mystery around it.

I agree that his speeches could be rather impressive, less due to the content but more due to the way of delivering them. I actually can understand that a at that time rather receptive audience welcomed them - a thing that I find rather scary, as we seem to be living in a time where receptive audiences for such guys seem to be available in a number of countries.

[Bhruic]

The book was required reading for one of my university classes. I could see where he got some of his ideas from Nietzsche - although I still believe Nietzsche didn't mean them in the way Hitler used them. However, I didn't find that the book was logical or consistent enough to present much danger of converting anyone.

Bh

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] ]However, I didn't find that the book was logical or consistent enough to present much danger of converting anyone.


I know that. That is why I called my feeling silly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/redface.gif

[Monsta]

Is the waiter the talented master of food or is the Chef?

Indeed it often takes a good waiter to bring your meal to you in time and as you ordered but wasnt it man in the kitchen who created you tastey meal who should take credit for the creation?

So should we really give the credit for speeches, etc, to Hitler when the 'Little Mouse Doctor' Goebbels... was without doubt the Chef of the NSDAP.

Brando or Puzo..Francis F.Coppola?
DeNero or Scorsese?
Subudei or The Khan?
Stalin or the T-34?
Coke or Pepsi?

What you see is not always what you get....just like the hype surrounding the Total War Series (in relation to multi play that is&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ICantSpellDawg]

Hitler was a straight Shooter, I cant fault him for that...

he said what he was going to do and he did it

i wish more politicians were like him... minus the crazy, genocidal, moustache part http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Monsta]

Monsta must disagree little cub Mcgruff.... as Hitler had no real policy or political agenda... he/they were more content just to follow what got them what they wanted...

for example before anybody says 'yeah but he did say he would kill jews'... the NSDAP did change policy concerning the church and the capitalist... etc etc..to suit their needs..a common Fascist way (well those who got anywhere anyway)

but this is another debate isnt it.. Was Hitler in control?.. now this is also in league with the question.. was it the will of the German people or were they unaware of what was going on..indeed were they in any position to stop it?

and it goes on and on...changing daily...

The most important point is that we dont forget the major part...and repeat the tragic events of WW2..a;though there is some evidence to suggest that Isreal have lost some history books (go on try me)..

think about how the Israel army studied the SS tactics for clearing the ghetto when they planned to move Palistinians...oh how ironic.

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (Wolf Monsta Cagan @ Feb. 09 2003,16:29)]Is the waiter the talented master of food or is the Chef?

Indeed it often takes a good waiter to bring your meal to you in time and as you ordered but wasnt it man in the kitchen who created you tastey meal who should take credit for the creation?

So should we really give the credit for speeches, etc, to Hitler when the 'Little Mouse Doctor' Goebbels... was without doubt the Chef of the NSDAP.

Brando or Puzo..Francis F.Coppola?
DeNero or Scorsese?
Subudei or The Khan?
Stalin or the T-34?
Coke or Pepsi?

What you see is not always what you get....just like the hype surrounding the Total War Series (in relation to multi play that is&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Its not necessarily whats being said, its in the delivery. I think what captivated audiences was Hitler's showmanship. They were entranced by his personality and willing to believe anything he threw on the table.

[troymclure]

I heard that Hitler considered mein kampf to be a failure, and didn't like people to mention it as he thought he could have done better...
anyways, my two cents on this is
1:- Hitler = Egotistical madman.
2:- He took advantage of the situation in Germany (overbearing sanctions, general discontent etc. etc.)
3:- He was still a very good orator.
4:- He singlehandadly caused that style of mustache to permanently go out of fashion.

[Namarie]

I think by distancing ourselves from humans like Hitler, we try to tell ourselves that the human race aint so bad. By giving people like him labels, well, then we can always get away with a phew, he was just nuts, and then we open up a spot for the next one in line. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Mr Frost]

It is my opinion that Hitler was not so much charasmatic {at least not highly so like Tele Sevalas for example: just watch old tapes of that ugly baldy in interviews with women and see him wrap them around his finger - that's high leval charasima in action} but a master of what I believe is refered to as Wagnarian Rhetoric and could employ that highly emotional style even better as it juxtaposed with his ability to seem quite charming in most encounters {Chamberlain -that woman of a man- was completely fooled by the combination/contrast ; in speeches Hitler would appear a rage of emotions who would except no less than complete overiding of thought by emotion in his listeners , yet in off stage meeting would -usually- play the charming Austrian host ... many bought the act} .

[ICantSpellDawg]

GG allens brother, Merle grew that moustache WITH huge wolverine sideburns and a bald head - then proceeded to wear massive lens sunglasses

one of the most absurd looks ive ever seen

[Portuguese Rebel]

I wonder if, with slight change of message and without the militar uniform, hitler could win the elections in a country like the US http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I think he could... this gives me the creeps... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Kraxis]

Hitler was good speaker long before he was introduced to Göebbels. I have heard a part of a speech he made all the way back in 1919, and you could easily recognize the way it was spoken... First low and reasonable then growing in strength until you could almost hear him pounding the table. If I hadn't been told it was in 1919 I would have said it to be around 1935.

BTW, I believe he lost his mind around 1942. He might have hated the Jews when he got to power, but they were just a means to get that power. Someone to point at, someone the people actually could get back at. He used so little energy on the Jews early and so much later (actually impossibly much)... Any other ruler would discontinue the attacks on a group that could not fight back and something you got so little out of (besides personal wealth), to give the resources to the fighting men. As time went more and more resources went into the killing... it should have been the other way if he had been sane.
But we can be both happy (did so many stupid things to the army) and sad (killed so many civilians) he wasn't sane...

[johnross11]

I must say no I've heard of could speak like Hitler. One thing Hitler did not keep his word on was where he got money from civilians and said he would buy them radios and the like after a while. Like he would buy some of them now and some later. Though he did do this,(and got to broadcast his messages to larger audiences) he took much of that money and stregthened his Whermacht with it.(or used it to kill Jews) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Personally I love WW2 history and study it for much of my free time(though not much on Hitler or the Holcaust)

And I would love a copy of Mein Kempf(im certain I won't be converted). I'm guessing they don't sell it on Amazon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Gregoshi]

Rebel, the answer to your question is simply no.

1) The Democrats and Repulicans wouldn't take him and a 3rd party candidate won't win an election.

2) Most everyone would declare him a nut case if he gave speeches in the US the same way he did in Germany. We expect our leaders to calm, cool and in control of themselves...they do have their finger on the button afterall.

3) The US media would tear him apart and the only media platform available to him would be Jerry Springer and company. Just remember to duck those flying chairs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

4) Even if he did get elected, he'd get nothing done without the cooperation of Congress. He'd be a lame duck President from day one.

The above is for the US as it is today. If the US spiraled down in to the toilet on all levels (similar to between wars Germany), who knows? Of course nearly every county could be vulnerable to such a thing in the right situation.

I realize you most likely did not expect an answer to your question as it was more a statement than a question. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif But here you go. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Efrem Da King]

Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ Feb. 09 2003,01:09)]Hitler was a political genius, too bad he was also a madman.
His political genius was the destruction of jews which most europeans at the time (and to today you could say) agreed with.

[KukriKhan]

I'll come on-board with this: I think he was the first national leader who understood the power and exploitability of his amplified voice. The tousandsvolk who attended his rallies couldn't see him, but they (and their radio-listening brethern) could hear this man who could miraculously make the trains run on time, and promised a restoration of national dignity (nevermind the thuggery he employed to get to the top - He's a weird guy, but he's our weird guy syndrome).

Sadly; nay: tragically, he believed his own hyperbole, appearantly never utilizing the old First Reich trick of having a guy whispering: Remember, you're only a man. in his ear.

I think the 'surround yourself with loyal soldiers' gambit, and 'believe your own hype' syndrome where what our Rebel was referring to. Looks to me like that's running rampant worldwide these days.

[Kraxis]

The first reich was the Holy Roman Empire... The second reich was the Imperial Germany under the two emperors, the second of which though it was a good idea to invade France.

[Antalis::]

Hitler was a murderer, nothing else.
He caused the death of 55 million people.

He learned to use his hands and gestics with photos.

Its very add that this crazy speakings had faszinated so many people and many believed that they are choosen and all will get better (you know 1929 -> the great depression, 1918 the lost war).
A little time before ww2 he was called Garant des Friedens (garander(?) of pease). Very add.


Also I think the first Reich was the roman empire, the second the holy empire and the 3rd the nazi state.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Mar. 01 2003,21:09)]Rebel, the answer to your question is simply no.

1) The Democrats and Repulicans wouldn't take him and a 3rd party candidate won't win an election.

2) Most everyone would declare him a nut case if he gave speeches in the US the same way he did in Germany. We expect our leaders to calm, cool and in control of themselves...they do have their finger on the button afterall.

3) The US media would tear him apart and the only media platform available to him would be Jerry Springer and company. Just remember to duck those flying chairs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

4) Even if he did get elected, he'd get nothing done without the cooperation of Congress. He'd be a lame duck President from day one.

The above is for the US as it is today. If the US spiraled down in to the toilet on all levels (similar to between wars Germany), who knows? Of course nearly every county could be vulnerable to such a thing in the right situation.

I realize you most likely did not expect an answer to your question as it was more a statement than a question. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif But here you go. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Thanks gregoshi, that makes me feel a little better now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Gregoshi]

I'm glad I could sooth your nerves at least a little, Rebel. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[bf109k]

Hitler's political genius was not the destruction of European Jewry... his genius was in his ability to manipulate the masses, create a society that would acquiesce to his programs(based on mass terror), and his ability to predict weakness in others (sometimes&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif This last ability was shown clearly in his foreign policy up until the invasion of Poland. (Rhineland, Austria, Sudetenland, then the remainder of Czech.) However, he had a terrible habit of pressing his luck... and finally Britain and France declared war...

While he showed several key strengths, he proved to be a blithering, incompetent statesman in many other areas - in addition to to being a great burdon on his military chain of command. One of his worst problems was his habit to micromanage.

You could go on and on and argue till the 2nd coming of Christ about this man.

[Dimeola]

Hitler was indeed very mesmerizing....a great motivator, and whether by luck or cunning or both engineered a terrific rise to power. But none of that matters. Hitler and his ilk were monsters and the extreme evil they perpetrated on the world can never be forgiven or forgotten. I`ve talked to people with numbers tatooed into their arms, the stories are very real and very chilling.
Dimeolas

[Efrem Da King]

Hitler was anti-semitic so was all of germany thats his genius as many leftwing people would put it.

[Dimeola]

The `genius` of Hitler was focusing the German masses on a scapegoat (the Jews) to help avert attention from their troubles and justify his strongarm thugs. And his political games allowed him to rebuild and train the armed forces while the West stood still. After WW2 the West was so reluctant to go to war they wished for peace at any cost. Do that against someone who is playing you and you put his knife at your throat. Similar to how the N. Viets played the US in political negotiations in Vietnam, and similar to how Saddam has played the West since the Gulf War and is doing today.
Dimeolas

[Brother Derfel]

Quote[/b] (Efrem Da King @ Mar. 07 2003,18:52)]Hitler was anti-semitic so was all of germany thats his genius as many leftwing people would put it.
You can not say that all germans were anti sematic, just those who had the power to brain wash the people of that country into believing that they were.

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ Mar. 08 2003,18:06)]
Quote[/b] (Efrem Da King @ Mar. 07 2003,18:52)]Hitler was anti-semitic so was all of germany thats his genius as many leftwing people would put it.
You can not say that all germans were anti sematic, just those who had the power to brain wash the people of that country into believing that they were.
I'd agree with you that not all the german people were anit-semitic but I'd say most of them were. After all, Hitler was elected to power by the German people. Anti-semitism has been a problem in Europe since late Roman times and I would not put it down as brainwashing.

[Longshanks]

Anti-semitism is still a problem in Europe interestingly enough.(especially in France) Some habits die hard.

[Muneyoshi]

Little history lesson for ya guys, Hitler's mom was gonna have an abortion but decided against it.

[Panther]

wonder if hitler could dance ----> http://c4dodmod.clanpages.com/images/hitler.gif

Lets Dance you and I http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Muneyoshi]

Some more infor, Hitler was Austrian (born there at least) and almost died a few times during WW1, and was wounded by an enemy shell in 1916 and evactuated to a Berlin hospoital. Served a total of 4 years in the military, and was temporarily blinded by a mustard gas attack in 1918.

Oh and also got a 5 year sentence in jail in 1923, but only served 9 months of it (he wrote the first volume of Mein Kampf at this time)

[Kraxis]

That thing about WW1 and Hitler. Statistically he was the sole survivor of his initial Brigade (he served in the same one the whole war).
The horrors he faced there formed his views on war. Leave the figthing to me and the soldiers, get rid of the generals.

[Efrem Da King]

THats a good sigline, germans aren't anti semititc they're just brainwashed into hating jews. Bullsh*t, europeans are the most anti semitic people in the world.Far more europeans are anti israel than any other western place. Also the most anti semitic, coincidence I think not.

[R'as al Ghul]

Oh yeah, and he was especially nice to his dog, wasn't he?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
What the @&*$ is everybody talking about???????
Ain't the right place for this discussion, in my opinion.
Shall i understand this as some kind of excuse or what?
By the way, all those despots, dictators and other mass murderes will have somebody to tell about them Well he was a very nice man, a good neighbour and at no time I had thought that he was capable of killing millions.....

Leave me alone

Edit by Gregoshi for language