Islam in MTW

[kataphraktoi]

I got a list of wants for MTW I don't expect them to be fulfilled but I still want to be post it

I want Muslim faction leaders to be able to have more than one wife or if the catholic factions obliged be able to marry more than one princess. I want the portraits of muslim princes to have blues and slightly blond hair because everyone knows that Muslim leaders lust after white women cos they're better of course

I want Muslims to be able to raise income through children, i mean the Turks did it and got their janissaries that way, so i want to be able to get children as income and get free janissaries.

I want Jihad to be an offensive tool, after reading Muslim definitions of Jihad they have honestly concluded that Jihad is both defenseive and offensive, so all that moderate muslim crap on a defensive jihad is total crap - any muslim would say it is defensive because us westerners have beaten them in the military game.

I want muslims to be invincible because Allah sez all muslims are better fighters than the christians - it will be better for gameplay because all muslims can now enjoy conquering catholic nations.

I want a new muslim building called slave market this gives the Muslim faction leaders extra ability to produce more children since the slave market allows them to buy christian women slaves to produce more muslim princes.

I want a new building called the Harem, this gives the muslim faction leader the extra extra ability to produce more heirs.

I want a new building called the Hashish factory this makes islamic nations more fanatical. good for players whio like a challenge, all muslim units gain + 4 honor and valour. c'mon bring it on.

I believe these enhancements will benefit MTW gamelpay AND i SAY THIS WITH NO CONVICTION.
I would still like to see it happen though.

[Teutonic Knight]

amen to that

[Wellington]

Why stop there.

Let's give them box cutters and plane tickets ...

... cheap but effective http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[A.Saturnus]

...and the ability to burn flags of factions they don`t like.

[DemonArchangel]

Seriously Kataphraktoi, you're nutz, but the Harem and multiple wives would be an excellent idea.

[rspete]

Lets not forget who the real victims are here: the Orthodox factions. The poor Russians get crap for units and their brand of Christianity benefits them not at all. The Byzantines are better off with all of their special units that seem to be rather powerless against the quick-footed Turkish infidels. The Orthodox factions gain no advantage from their faith (and no troop diversity amongst infantry in the case of the Russians). So stop whining about those Muslim types and recognize the truly offended

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

What is the point of of Orthodoxy? It seems like a non-religion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Heraclius]

you have a point there rspete. The Byzantines would benfit greatly if they could just produce a light/fast cav unit (like Alans) instead of having to hire them from an inn when they decide to show up. Then I could catch those damn horse archers instead of hiding in the frickin woods

[Heraclius]

Big King to your post I say(cools boiling Greek orthodox blood and ignores shouting/fist waving Greek ancestors).... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif But seriously I am not religous at all. I can count the times I've been in a church with the fingers on my right hand (4)
You do have a point about Orthodoxy being useless, in the context of the game at least. Catholics get crusades and inquisitors, Muslims get jihads while the Orthodox get nada. In the histroy of the Byzantine empire however that wasn't true. The church saved the empire on many occasions with timely donations of money or parading icons around the walls and scaring off assorted Russians, Bulgars and Avars when the army was gone (although I think Constantinople's massive landwalls played a part in this too).
When they got involved in politics or intrigue against the Pope however they almost brought the Empire to ruin. Still I was hoping CA might adress this better by including messages like Patriarch of Constantinople donates 1000 florins to you or even Patriarch tries to kidnap Pope, watch out for Catholic armies coming your way. ah well, I can still dream

[Kraxis]

Ohhh so now it is the poor Orthodoxs that are underpowered in religion... Well what about the Danes and Poles??? They are Catholics that can't Crusade... what an insult to be forced to stop attacking somebody and not be allowed to launch a Crusade to compensate. And even worse is the fact that German Crusades (other too if they go north-east) pillage and steal troops when they enter their lands. The Orthodoxs at least only get robbed and the Crusades die in Orthodox lands (zeal = 5% and they don't get any new recruits).

So who are the true victims?

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Feb. 26 2003,17:08)]Ohhh so now it is the poor Orthodoxs that are underpowered in religion... Well what about the Danes and Poles??? They are Catholics that can't Crusade... what an insult to be forced to stop attacking somebody and not be allowed to launch a Crusade to compensate. And even worse is the fact that German Crusades (other too if they go north-east) pillage and steal troops when they enter their lands. The Orthodoxs at least only get robbed and the Crusades die in Orthodox lands (zeal = 5% and they don't get any new recruits).

So who are the true victims?
true, Kraxis, true but in real life the Danes or Poles never did mount Crusades, at least none that I can think of whereas religion did give a benefit to the Orthodox. Still it sucks that they can't launch any but can also get excommunicated. Maybe to compensate the Danes and Poles should be able to launch crusades starting in the high-period. Nonetheless I think the Orthodox factions, especially the Russians, got the short end of the stick when it comes to religion

[Brutal DLX]

Shrugs. Sorry, but I don't get the reason of why this thread exists.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kataphraktoi]

Well all you Hellenophiles who have a lgeitimate cause for concern about the non-entity of the Orthodox Faith I suggest one thing to do, mod the game and make some new units to benefit the orthodox and not necessarily to make them rule the world, thats just boring, no one left to fight, when theres no one left to fight your soldiers start turning transvestite and give up their swords for the art of making flowers.

Anyway, i am working on orthodox agents, I have a dilemma as to what kind of agent:

There is the orthodox zealot, he kicks the bishops butt in preaching and adds zeal even though the Orthodox don't really use the zeal anyway but its nice to show your piety now and then.

There is the wickedly evil Byzantine sabotage agent, everyone knows Byzantines were the master of deceit and downright devious diplomacy, this sabogent are best used in Catholic territory where they forment strife by falsely accusing catholic generals of heresy. yeah yeah its a grand inquisitor in disguise but hey thiose catholic religious figures were all crooks anyway.

I still haven't done that psiloi unit yet, fast light soldiers who can cover territry fast and are annoying

I gave the Byz a crusade once jus for fun, I changed y mind after that.

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ Feb. 27 2003,07:46)]There is the wickedly evil Byzantine sabotage agent, everyone knows Byzantines were the master of deceit and downright devious diplomacy, this sabogent are best used in Catholic territory where they forment strife by falsely accusing catholic generals of heresy. yeah yeah its a grand inquisitor in disguise but hey thiose catholic religious figures were all crooks anyway.
if we could have one of those in the game then the true spirit of the Byzantines would be felt. Keep working, kataphraktoi. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Feb. 26 2003,17:19)]true, Kraxis, true but in real life the Danes or Poles never did mount Crusades, at least none that I can think of
I don't know about the Poles, but the Danes Crusaded the Baltic. They built op the fervour of their troops and population, got papal sanctioning to call it a Crusade, went and killed a lot of pagans, took those lands and converted them to Christians, had plenty of priests and bishops on the Crusade. Got the land under the Danish crown and the archbishop of Lund.
True it might have been a powerplay by the king and archbishop, but so were all Crusades. But the Danish Crusades didn't count as they were not aimed at the Holy Lands, or so it seems CA has argued.
And it wasn't that there wasn't any religious knightly order in this as Teutonics joined in as they heard somebody would pay for their fare to pagan lands...

Go tell the thousands of dead Livs that then they died at th hands of a man saying 'In the name of God' it wasn't a Crusade.

[Elwe]

Strictly speaking the Fourth Crusade's destination of Egypt was a cover. It's real destination was always Constantinople. Don't call that a Holy Lands destination, myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Cheers.

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Feb. 27 2003,16:45)]I don't know about the Poles, but the Danes Crusaded the Baltic. They built op the fervour of their troops and population, got papal sanctioning to call it a Crusade, went and killed a lot of pagans, took those lands and converted them to Christians, had plenty of priests and bishops on the Crusade.
good, point kraxis I did not consider that. A crusade to the Baltic should be equal to a crusade to the Holy land. Still, I think the date of the crusade was in the high period of hte game so I guess the solution would be to allow the Danes and maybe Poles to have crusades starting in the high period, like I said before. Elwe, don't get me started on the fourth crusade and their leader that thieving skunk-weasel of a man Enrico Dandolo, Doge of Venice. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Elwe]

Quote[/b] ]Elwe, don't get me started on the fourth crusade and their leader that thieving skunk-weasel of a man Enrico Dandolo, Doge of Venice.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Cheers.

[TheViking]

Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Feb. 26 2003,21:38)]you have a point there rspete. The Byzantines would benfit greatly if they could just produce a light/fast cav unit (like Alans) instead of having to hire them from an inn when they decide to show up. Then I could catch those damn horse archers instead of hiding in the frickin woods
take Kahzar and train steppe cavalry,, they are almost or as good as Alans

[kataphraktoi]

When the Empire struck back, Darth Vader..I mean Emperor Michael Paleologus and the Byzantines dug out the body of Dandolo the Dog, the unpious, the heretic, the blasphemer, the sacrilgious tool of the fatous blockhead called the Papacy who was buried in St Sophia and threw his body out into the sea. Michael was reputed to have said

Swim you blind old fool, you the master of the sea can't even swim to save your carcass fromg etting wet

I added the last bit, it has no historical validity.

ANyway what about Islam fellas?

I got a great unit agent for all factions

He's called the Kidnapper mercenary

The Kidnapper kidnaps princesses for you if that stingy king won't allow his daughter to be married away to your prince who would most like to break his chastity in the most christian and legal way possible.

Hark Agent units now get a bodyguard unit as well,these are agents units that can be trained and merged with the agent to serve as an entourage bodyguard.

Double Hark
Agent unit bodyguards can now be countered by Ambush agents, who ambush entourages of an agent

Triple Hark
Now you can counter ambush agents with your own counter ambush units

As for Muslim factions I now introduce the Lustful Muslim agent
He is an agent who decreases the morale of christian factions by raping the generals while their sleeping, the embarrassment of getting hood winked by a lustful muslim adds a vice and that is Sodomy - this general has been sodomised and is now an embarrassment to his soldiers -5 morale. tsk tsk very harsh.

[kataphraktoi]

I finally learnt how to upload files properly yay

Here are new unit mods I have created and are uploading at the moment

Klibanophori elite kata with only lance - super heavy cavalry as described by David Nicolle who wrote Osprey men at arms books -some with bows but I haven;t been able to mod a bow to them so they are presumed to be front rank Klibs

Kataphratoi bow kata comes with bow

Skutatoi heavy spearman, better defensive than offensive

Croatian brigands ambush unit, able to take on cavalry when used properly, can hide in open

Serbian brigands fast cross country unit, can cover ground fast and attack with ferocity but weaker than croats.

Coming soon
Psiloi
Byzantine sabotage unit

Frankly I think you Byzohiles should mod the crusader prod 11 files so that you can produce Turcoman horseman, under Alexius Comnenus Turks as either mercenaries or Pronoia Allaghion units were becoming an important factor in the army. Pechenegs served as Pronoia when given land in Thrace. I am thinking of a light Byz cav but a Trapezitoi made by some guy called Latro should do as an adequate light cav companion.

The first of the links friends
skutatoi link (http://www.geocities.com/weirdguynextdoor/Skutatoiv.1heavyinfentryspearmen.zip)

Klibanophori - Clibanarii if you are uptight (http://www.geocities.com/weirdguynextdoor/Klibanophoriv1.0.zip)

[kataphraktoi]

Flaming Pigs - we need Flaming pigs

No Catholics or Orthodox factions would want to leave home for the Middle East without one.

Fighting fire with bacon

Pigs are considered as warriors in their own right.
Cost: Priceless
defend well against cavalry
weak against spearmen
can assassinate imams
can assasinate alims
can assassinate a mosque

By the way anyone think a belly dancer assassin would be cool - she dances for ya then she kills you. bittersweet

[KurnoustheHunter]

kataphraktoi

You are an absolute gem of a man, mean't in a totally macho way of course The wit, and humour of some of your posts has me in stitches. You display a remarkable amount of historical knowledge.

Will look forward to looking at your mod. By the way, do you know much about Croatian History? I am a Croat myself (well technically a 1st generation Australian) and I come from a noble bloodline (one which was not wiped out in glorious battle with the turks&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I might need alittle help modding hem into a playable faction. Hungary is so historically incorrect. During 1000-1100 Croatia had the largest army in europe and was considered one of its greatest powers (mainland not asia minor). It remained powerful into the 1200 till a combination of factors (internal strife, the blasted Papacy and then finally the coming of the turks ended its power)

In the end it had to band together with the hungarians then both with the austrians. Ironically modern day croatia was the military frontier for centuries with those blasted turks who used its own people against them- Janisseries) Anyway I want to make a faction of them if I can, oh as well as improve those Russians and Poles ever so slightly

[kataphraktoi]

wOw this posted has been resurrected

Thank you Kurnous I pride myself on offending a certain kind of people as a pernicious multiculturalist http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Do I know any Croatian history? A bit though jus a bit, let me recap.

Croatians are Slavs migrated in the great Slavic migration from 6th to 7th before settling down into coherent kingdoms in the old Illyrian and Dalmatae provinces, Croatians were noted as a maritime power especially as naval pirates, such were their reputation at that time that Venice concluded an alliance with Byzantium to guard against them, on land however Croatians proved just as resilient, tsar Symeon of Bulgaria had one of his armies destroyed by the Croatians and died a sad sad man. In the early 11th century Basil Bulgaroctonus subdued the Bulgarian empire of Samuel Cometopouli and recieved the acknowledgement of Roman suzerainty of the Serbs and the Croats thus extending Roman rule over the Balkans again. Croatians often found themselves the object of conflict between Hungary and Comnenan Byzantium, damn those Croat chiks are too irresistible, anyway thats as far as my knowledge of Croatians go.

So u wanna make Croatia a faction, I think there was a mod in MTW downloads which has the Croats as a faction modded, you might try looking there, if not I will include them somehow in my future mods. Right now I am doing the Arab invasions, i have Slav factions so far, someone has suggested the Great Moravian Empire but Croatia hmmm.

I once had a custom Craotian unit in my game, it was a lightly armoured archer infantry but was fast and could hide out in the open to ambush enemies, I tested them once and they thrashed my heavy cavalry well i guess dats cos the hills of Croatia are damn big and annoying for my precious cavalry.

I hear ya bro, dem Turks pulled a nasty snake out of the bag with Devirsme policy of Child tribute from the Christian families, oh well too late now, maybe one day we can adopt some muslim orphans and turn them into televangelists??? whaddaya reckon we'll get some elite infantry foot preachers on the streets in no time.

I will personally organise them into 4 elite crack regiments:

1. Dubrovnik Dragons

2. Dobra Dan Atheletic

3. Josep Broz Tito Lightning Force

4. Croatia Dynamo

By the way i am not Croatian not even close, i have no idea about modern Croatia btu I had this friend in high school, she was a Bosnian who was Catholic but he dad was a Mostar muslim while her mum was an Orthodox, thats freaky man, if you wanna marry her you might want to be Jweish or something, her family is like Skittles y'know all the colours of the rainbow and stuff.

I feel sorry for you, Croats should of been Orthodox..nah jus kidding , its time for Croat Pope eh??

[Shahed]

Well umm this shows just how little people really know about Islam. And how much their personal conviction paints their misunderstanding.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[DemonArchangel]

actually, a flaming pig would be an EXTREMELY useful unit, this is the reason why i can't wait for RTW, nothing peps you up better than the smell of bacon, or my specialized naptha catapult that i modded with a friend.

[kataphraktoi]

Quote[/b] ]Well umm this shows just how little people really know about Islam. And how much their personal conviction paints their misunderstanding.


ummm I am not ignorant of Islam, i jsut fall the party line about Islam.

I don;t accept the suggestion that if I think that Islam is bad then I am automatically wrong and ignorant.

I don;t like to be categorised as a kafir(infidel) either and I resent Islam's arrogance that it is superior than Christianity, but then my opinions don;t matter anyway, since I am a kafir I must be automatically wrong on all counts concerning religion. personal convictions apply to muslims as well.

Give me a break, muslims are just Christians it applies both ways, muslims are just as guilty in slanging Chrsitians.

I am tired of politically correctness it is a form of intellectual fascism.

[KurnoustheHunter]

Kataphraktoi,

Again you impress me immensely. Your knowledge of Croatian history is very good. With alittle research I realise that in its simplistic way the makers of MTW have Croatia right.

I believe it was in 1089-90 that the last Croatian King, Zvonimir died heirless. There was a civil war as a group of Croatian nobles in 1091 wanted to conclude the Pacta Conventa with Hungarian King Ladislaus, conceding him the Croatian crown in exchange for Croatian autonomy. Other nobles objected and the Venicians took advantage to capture Dalmatia. (I hate those Venician's almost more then turk's, they fucked over Croatia and the Byzantine Empire-to croatia's eventual ruin.)

So I guess in a purely historical sense Croatia is a no-no in MTW (Though I do believe a few croats crowned themselves King's only to die in battle later....not sure about this&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

One day I might (After much practice modding) turn Croatia emerge at a certain date if prov is rebellious. Thinking of into a potential Switzerland/Burgandy type country..they either giving the prov. +1 Valour to FMAA or CMAA.

Oh and the rest of our post is very funny. may very well adopt muslim ophans. It's a pity we can't turn them into inquisitor's with the ability to burn 1000's of the filthy SOB's. Televangalists will have to do.

...and yeah Croatian chicks do rock.....though they are so very haunty, most of the time.

Hope everything is going well with your modding especially with the Byzantines. Right now as a new comer to the game I don't want to touch em with a 10 foot pole....errr stick...I know some tall poles but not that tall...)

Catch ya round

[kataphraktoi]

I finished the mod but I can't stop modding it further so it will probably never be released, i am working on a highly collectible and highly playable mod of the Byzantine Resurgence, by the way Galestrum has made Croatia a faction and my Craotian skirmisher unit will be added to it as well.

If u like I will release a few new units for testing, gimme ur e-mail and you recieve some nasty surprises.

[KurnoustheHunter]

Cool, cant wait to try them

email me at : brebrich@ihug.com.au

[kataphraktoi]

yo kurnsy jus follow the kataphraktoi thread in the Dungeon and check thru the thread for links and stuff, I regularly put up links.

any dead ones jus mention it and I will fix it up