Handgunners....

[Kadagar_AV]

First of all, rainy days they cant even fire their weapon. And for some reason, it seems to be MUCH more rainy days than clear througout the day.

secondly, their ranged attack do NO damage... I had 4 units of handgunners stand and shoot at byzantine infantry, it took them some 30-40 salvoes to kill like 10 of them...

third, sure they are better in HTH than, say, arbalesters, but if I want HTH I'll buy infantry.

so what are they good for, arbalesters do better damage and kills more people:o)

anyone?

[Exile]

They're cheap, second rate infantry that might kill 1 or 2 enemy units with a handgun volley. I've heard here that they are useful if you can get them around to fire into an enegaged enemy unit from the flank/rear. Personally, I dont bother with them. Arquebruisers aren't much better, but the sound effects are cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Kadagar_AV]

if i can get a infantryunit to the rear, tehir charge will do better.... and normal bowmen will also do more damage shooting from the rear/back

so basicly, they have no use?

[LadyAnn]

It is a mistake to discount handgunners as no use. I blame this discovery to ElmarkoOfFear. But the following comment is useful for Multiplayer (MP) only. I have not played enough game in SinglePlayer (Late Era) to know if handgunners are good or bad at valor 0.

The use of handgunners is in using them as ... cheap sword units with the bonus of a gun. They have decent melee and defense stats, have good morale and their weapon cause fear.

So, bring them to the flank (with cavalry protection, of course), give it a blast, and engage the enemy. Don't put them on skirmish mode (hold formation or engage at will is better).

In MP, upgrade them to the teeth (val3 or val4 with lots of weapon upgrade). In Late Era, handgunners are the best infantry units to some weak factions such as Almohads (Elmoheads http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) and Russians.

Annie

[Rising_General]

They work best if you get them close to a front. However, my personal favorite is Longbowmen,they have been the deciding facter in alot of my battles.. arquebruisers are good if you are not the english.. However the next time you have handgunners march them within the maximium shooting distance to improve there accurracy. i.e. takedown power.


JS,


Henry David Thoreau - “What is human warfare but just this; an effort to make the laws of God and nature take sides with one party.”

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

A complement of Lady ann wise remark...

If you play custom games or MP (but I don't have experience there...) there you will notice that valor upgrade for handgunner is dirty cheap because they are missile

And a point of valor for a missile unit is way cheaper than a point of valor for non missile unit...

Valor 4 handgunner makes for decent swordman at a cheap price

The same valor for free trick works also fine with turks

IMO, kind of buggy

Louis,

[Aggony1Knight]

I always saw handgunners as turcomaan foot soldiers but with a gun and and sword not sword and bow. Im not sure though but i think handgunner in H2H they mite win against turcoman with one less Valour.

-A1K

[HopAlongBunny]

Cheap, expendable, and not bad melee for a missle unit (SP) The fear effect sometimes works, put them out front of spear as a sponge (a little more stable than peasants) or use them as flankers

[Arrowmaker]

Arquebuiers seem better, they seem to cause much panic and confusion in enemy infantry but yes my preference is Pavise Arbalests

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (Arrowmaker @ Feb. 06 2003,04:06)]Arquebuiers seem better, they seem to cause much panic and confusion in enemy infantry but yes my preference is Pavise Arbalests
Agreed

Recently I had the entire flank of an opposing army (SP) rout from the deadly hail of my arquebusiers (spelling P). Pav arbies cause more damage...but you don't get cool lil puffs of smoke http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ErikJansen]

Forget Handgunners

Be a Saracen Maniac and get your dosage of Janitor mayhem instead. Janitor Infantry I say Janitor Infantry

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[FearofNC]

handgunners are exellent vs. cav ...use in deep formation...5 or so ranks.. on hold formation/ hold position.. set them behind a nice spear wall to inflict a -6 moral penelty on the foe untill the cav come around the flank...then use the handgunners to hold the cav while outflanking the now engaged enemy horses with your own horses.

now in mp...having any unit run is usually a sure killer...unless the other guy has some of his routing too.. and the -6 moral penelty is a good way of making that first unit run...this is what makes them so good in mp. but in sp...there are lots of reinforcments... and the armies as a whole tend to be higher moral than what you see online becasue of the generals moral bonus..so they arent nearly as effective in sp...

[max_killer_payne]

One thing hangunners are good for, hmmmmm




Get slaughtered http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Panther]

My favourite are Janissary archers
they dont get used because of JHI and only production in one place so modded them to be available but a bit harder to get

[Asimov]

Arquebruisers are quite expensive while the handgunners combined infantry, missiles and fear in one type of troop. Two days ago, My Byzantine infantry was fighting against Mongol Heavy Cavalry and the support from 2 squads of handgunners was the sole reason that my Byz prevailed.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org Asimov. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Thanks for coming aboard

[Asimov]

Thanks, Admin. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Gregoshi]

Please, call me Greg. I'm just a moderator anyway.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Don't like this guys all that much... but their use cannot be in northern europe. Middle east, Iberian Peninsula, Africa, perhaps but never on any terrain in wich rain i likely to occur...

[Asus]

You get much *Bang* for the Buck with Handgunners. Very easy to exploit their avantages in multiplayer especially in higher florin games.

I've won so many games with them I almost feel that they are a little over advantaged. Historically I've seen a picture or two of heavily armored Handgunners, however I've run into more examples of early gunmen wearing nothing more than a helmet.

I love these guys, but wouldn't be upset if CA hiked up their cost a little, I mean seriously you've a fairly well trained heavily armed and armored hybrid troop with good morale whose weapons cause fear For only 175 florins to start

Although what I'd really love to see is more varieties of early gunmen, such as those guys with the long pole gonnes Reminds me of an early Bazooka lol.

Well there's my take on em. Fill your ranks with em

[Gareth_of_Orkney]

Handgunners are relatively cheap and with practice they work well especially as stated with some high valor and upgrades. Of course if your Name is Elmo htye work even better than normal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Try them once you get used to them you might not leave home without them.

Gareth

[Gregoshi]

Hello Gareth. Glad you joined us.

I suggest that if handgunners make the game too easy for you, then don't use them. Is a victory worth the risk of the game becoming boring? Using the same army/units all the time will bring about boredom. There is no rule stating that you have to take the best units all the time. Pav arbs fall into the same category. Of course, that is just my opinion.

[Dr_No]

personally never use them.. but do remember reading an old post extolling the virtues of handgunners in blocks one behind the other and pistol whippin' them bad dudes to death... might give it a go tonight

[Asus]

Dont get me wrong Gregoshi one simply cannot take 16 units of Handgunners with heavy upgrades and expect an automatic win. It does take some effort against an almost always superior enemy. The glory comes when the enemy sees your Handguns as inferior.

In any case it is a good idea to provide these guys with some protection i.e. spear or pike; that way they actually have a chance to let loose some close range morale busting volleys before you send them in to engage and turn the tides.

[TanDaraDei]

Nice to find an explanation. Cause till now I thought that handgunners (and arqebusiers) were bugged and that is why they didn't do any damage. First (and only) battle I used them was a defence. I lined up 4 or five of them on a hill behind a wall of SAP's and waited for the enemy. The AI brought some heavy cav and just couldn't decide to charge the pikes so they just stupidly rode back and forth within range. Great, I thought, as my gunners begun to fire salvo after salvo. Then after some ten or more rounds I checked the enemy and guess what no casualties inflicted. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
So i just thought guns were bugged and charged the cav with them pikes with good effect. In the same situation pavise arbs. decimate entire units of heavy cav in couple of shots. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Snowhobbit]

IMHO any arqebusiers or handgunners are useless, i only play SP, so i dont know, maybe there good in MP...

[Shahed]

hand gunners can be very effective, even seen em beat gothic knights in h2h(MP).

[rory_20_uk]

I know that this is nothing new, but I kile 'em just for the smoke effect really, and that in a very protracted battle (such as where there is a bridge for example) they will be shooting for a lot longer than archers will - albeit not causing many casualties per volley, but killing some, and in numbers helping to reduce the enemy's morale.
Other than that, if there is a very steep hill or (even better) cliff they can go on top and just shoot at anything that moves for the duration of the battle.

[PrithviRaj Chauhan]

Hi Everyone,
Those handgunners are excellent in hand to hand combat if u give them valour 4 which is relatively cheap to do ... Also the same goes for futtuwwas:):) those boys rock

[Aelwyn]

I get bored using the same units all the time, so recently I've been using something like Elmo's all missle army. The gun's are 4 Arqs, and 2-3 Handgunners. It works really well, at least it has so far. Handgunners morale works well to their advantage, as they won't rout as quickly as inf units who have lost around the same amount of men. If you put 1-2 Arqs firing on the unit that the Handgunners are fighting H2H it usually doesn't take long for that unit to route in most occasions. I never take them w/less than v4 w1. If I have the florins I go for v4 w2.

[Lord Of Storms]

Personally never used handgunners or arqs that much the firepower is lacking to say the least, now if you want real fire power from a musket or carbine try the Lords Napoleonic Mod. v 1.5 Look for the Thread in the Dungeon and you will find the link enjoy.