Multiplayer tactics for the Turkish

[Fragony]

Hi,

Recently I tried taking the MTW goodness online, and all I can say is wow. Watching experienced players innihilating my army was a sight to behold for sure, but not quite what I had in mind. All the people I played with were very friendly and helpfull (special thanks too Glorfender), this is a community where a newbie can enjoy a game for sure.
I noticed that playing a multiplayer game is very different from the campaign battles. I would like to get some tips on how to build a solid force, too make my beloved Turks own once again. While unstoppable in sp, my JHI got owned by a group of Allan Mercs, my JHI routed without even causing a few casualties (ok, maybe 5 or 6).
My Armenian heavy cav. caught a unit of Byzantine infantry in the flank, and I was sure they were done for. Well they were not to say the least. Exploiting the speed of the units don't seem to work, they just seem so weak
Could someone plz give me some basic tips for mp, especially unit ballancing.........

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Welcome. A quick search in the Jousting fields provide some results.

Among the most recent contribution;

Turk Units (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=18;t=4260)

Do you have any replay available, so that we can help you out... JHI shall kill those Alan pretty bad... But without valor and more explanation of the situations, it's going to be tough saying what went wrong... Exhausted JHI? Other unit routing nearby? Etc... etc...

Turk unit are usually pretty solid moralewise (JHI, JI, Ghazi, futuwa, etc, etc...) but not that great in defense or armor. The issue facing the turk player is usually losing pav arb duel for lack of pav arb If you can skip the pav arb phase, you have done the biggest part of the job

Not sure it helps, but this is my usual set up.

Ghulam cav *3
Turco Horse *1
JHI *4
JI *4
Futuwwa *2
Ghazi *2

Upgrade are secret (play with me and look at the log&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. You might not be interested as this army is not performing better than any other I win some, I lose some

Beside the turco horse, I just try to bring all units in the 8/10 morale range in 15K game.

Feel free to join other turk general online so that we can discuss the matter (most of them contributes to the enclosed link).

Louis,

[Kongamato]

I played w/Louie no more than 24 hours ago.

Want his upgrades? I can tell you.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


I played with the Turks as a beginner. I did not make my upgrades an exact science though... I cannot help you with an army selection.

The Turks were good as a beginner faction. I learned the relative strenghths and weaknesses of the regular units. However, the game tends to organize itself into organized, Catholic Pav Arb trench warfare. The Turks need mobility and room to have a chance at victory, and the majority of online games are team games where this does not always work.

[Fragony]

About his upgrades, If he was victorious plz do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Ahum... game badly lost... I don't know why I speak, I'd rather ask for advice

As Kongamato and I pointed out in my first answer, the real big issue is pav arb.

When the fied is uneven with woods, not a big deal, even a small hill an go a long way. In steppe, it is a real huge issue.

Not to mention, when your team wants to go pav arb war and blame you because they are outnumbered by ennemy pav arb and your contribution is nada.

Louis,

Regarding upgrade... Oh well... Looks who is speaking...

[Alrowan]

wiat till erik aka vandal gets here.. hes taught me an aweful lot on truks and im sure he can help you here. In my opinion he would be one of the top 3 turkish players

[ABG]

Turks need to move fast as they dont have pavs. It doesnt mean u have to rush with them.

3 futuwas or so, go near the nemy and shoot the heavy units (not pavs) with your main army near. If enemy retry u can eat the pavs with futus as they have nice attack ratio. High honour with sarracen to hold flanks and let the JHI v3 ( if u have money for that...) do the job.
I think also some ghazi on the flanks are very usefull, as they are fast, cheap and with very high morale.

The problem (imo) is the cav if u have to face a cristian army.

I normally pick alans (not heavy cavs with turks) with v2 and some armour upgrade. They are fast, and i let enemy attack my foots unit first and immediately (if not u will rout soon...) i launch my alans to them.

I like very much Turks to play, but i think they require skills if u want to win with them in MP.

[ErikJansen]

Actually enemy cav is the least of my concerns when I bring a Turk army to face off against a christian army. Alans are quicker, with valor upgrades they will hold an enemy heavy cav contigent pinned until they suffer death by JHI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Your main concern is the lack of Pavs, but that can be circumvented in many complex and dangerous ways. Hehe, its good to play the Turks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I've had you participating in one of my Ravens Nest games allready Fragony (you and your alt-tab'ing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) and I host games on desertmaps a lot. You are most welcome to join in the fun online if you see me hosting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Edit: The link Louis provided is chock full of free tips and info on how to use Turks. I highly recommend it.

Regards,

[Fragony]

It wasn't me It was my evil twin that looks, thinks and smells just like me I would NEVER alt-tab midgame because it CRASHES the game Surprised you don't know that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ShadesPanther]

I use Armour upgrades quite a bitas they all have very good attack but poor defence ( except turcoman horse) Jan inf with high enough valour can be put on the front line and i alternate my front line like so


TH TH

JHI JI JHI JI JHI JI JHI JI
F F F F F
KC JHI (general) KC

JHI = Janny heavy inf
JI = Janny inf
F = Futuwwa
TH = Turcoman horse
KC = Kwarazmiam Cav ( or can be armenian cav )



That is my army
JHI get armour and so do jan inf
Futuwwas with a bit of armour can fight really well
TH and KC get a slight weapon upgrade

That is quite high florin just more than default

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Erik is right... Ennemy cav is not to worry about. Pav is the issue.

How to circumvent lack of pav in MP for the Turk?

It can be pretty complex and is worth a separate topic in the Jousting field

How to dodge pav arb duel (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=18;t=5242;r=1;&#top)

Louis,

[ErikJansen]

My favorite part of the duel is when catholic armies send in another unit of cav to flank my allready engaged HJI and smack them. Its absolutely the biggest waste in the game. To really damage HJI you need to couple cav with CMAA or similar. It takes HJI about one minute max to break a unit of hostile cav, be it lancers or feudal knights, correct me anyone if you feel I am mistaken. The only way to break HJI is a rear charge on a somewhat depleted unit. Part from that enemy cav is as good as dead. Nothing compares to HJI when it comes to cav killing duty and manueverability.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I remember my first game vs *********... a 3v3... He sent 4 lancers to smack 2 JHI sitting in a steppe. Results in 4 dead lancers.

I also keep a replay of another 3v3 where 2 cav (to pin) and 2 JHI slaughter 8 heavy christian cav in 1 min.

Usually, I keep my JHI at val0 for 15K game. Works just fine. Who needs saracen inf?

Cav is really not a concern.... Pav arb is, and Erik, I am still waiting for you to share some of your tip to get rid of those dman pav arb

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Louis,

[Aelwyn]

Quote[/b] (ErikJansen @ April 08 2003,21:26)]My favorite part of the duel is when catholic armies send in another unit of cav to flank my allready engaged HJI and smack them. Its absolutely the biggest waste in the game. To really damage HJI you need to couple cav with CMAA or similar. It takes HJI about one minute max to break a unit of hostile cav, be it lancers or feudal knights, correct me anyone if you feel I am mistaken. The only way to break HJI is a rear charge on a somewhat depleted unit. Part from that enemy cav is as good as dead. Nothing compares to HJI when it comes to cav killing duty and manueverability.
?? Hmm, I've had success in taking JHI out with a flanking unit. I don't have any specific replays to back this up, not any that I can think of offhand, but I remember a few times its worked. A few times I've gotten maybe a unit of Alan stuck on JHI, and I'll bring a unit of Chiv Knights up and charge them into the back of the JHI, and they route. Of course it depends on if you kill enough on the initial charge to lower their morale enough.

[ShadesWolf]

Keep the good info coming guys

The turks will be my next SP faction that I do a guide on

[Aelwyn]

In that case ShadesWolf, do what you can in the early era to eliminate the Byzantines. Use the Turks many missle units in the early era as your advantage, and expand as well as you can. If possible....ah doesn't matter really. The AI doesn't use Pav Arbs as far as I've seen....so expand during the High Era too. Establish your JHI pumping province in a good place that won't get attacked easily. I haven't made it far enough ever w/the Turks to acutally make JHI, but its my understanding you can make them in only one province, right? Forget about expanding into Russia until you have a good trade balance established. The provinces up there don't make enough for someone to depend on them. A waste of resources imo.

[Fragony]

Turks SP isn't that hard, Egypt (your main concern) is extremely vurnerable for assasins, they don't build border forts or brothrels(??). Sometimes I train assasins and let them kill eachother when no target available, once I got a valour 4 assasin it is on.

Is this a dagger I see before me?