Missile Units

[chuachinsoon]

Hi all. Wondering, are Pavise Arblasters better than the gunners? What are their strengths and weaknesses? I'm playing in campaign mode now and reaching the medium/late era so I'm only just starting to get handgunners.

[Gregoshi]

Greetings and welcome chuachinsoon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I cannot speak from personal experience in SP campaign as I've never progressed far enough to even get a sniff of gunpowder. However, in MP online, it appears that having pav arbs is an absolute requirement in many players' eyes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif If you snoop around the Main Hall and the Jousting Field, you will no doubt find a topic or two that touches on these units.

[pdoan8]

Everytime I bring an Arquebus or a Handgun, it rains.

I prefer Arbalest or Passive Arbalest. With Passive Arbalest, I have a big shield to hide under so I won't get wet when it rains http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Edit here are the real stats:

Arbalest has longer range. Twice more than Hangun and 50% more than Arquebus.

Arbalest reload twice as fast as Handgun and Arquebus.

Handgun and Arquebus almost neglect armour of the target while Arbalest only reduce armour factor of the target to 1/3.

Arbalest is about 8 times more accurate.

Handgun and Arquebus are 3 times as lethal as Arbalest.

Handgun and Arquebus are twice as powerful as Arbalest.

Handgun and Arquebus cause fear to the unit being fired upon.

Arbalest can fire under rain while Handgun and Arquebus can not.

[A.Saturnus]

Welcom chuachinsoon to the Orc... err Org.

Always happy to see someone whe wants to give guns a chance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Well, guns aren`t a substitude for arbs. Arbs are essential, guns are a bonus. Arbs are for inflicting heavy damage on an army. Guns inflict far less damage than arbs but they can give a nasty morale malus to the enemy. I choose handgunners before arqus because their good melee ability.

[Crackslapper]

Hi Chuachi,

A small piece of advice mate, never go to a steppe battle on multiplayer without pavise arbs for 2 reasons.

1. You will be left with little choice other than attack before your army is shot to pieces, as most people bring 3-4 units

2. The http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif you get from your allies will me unmerciful.

Sorry if this doesnt really answer your question its just a tip.

[Gregoshi]

That is very practical advice Crackslapper. And sad too. Your advice is the reason I have a problem with them - the expectation that you have to have them to stand a chance to win. Is winning so important that everyone comes to the battlefield with the same cookie-cutter army? Boring.

Er, sorry, I'll put away my soapbox... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Chuachisoon,

When it comes to killing plenty of virtual people, pav arb is the way to go.
However, guns have a few advantages;
1/ they are cool looking with nice smoke and noise... when it works
2/ alternatively, they rout ennemy troup which is as good as killing them

I have been playing MP quite often in the last two months and run only once in a unhappy player because I had no pav arb (I play Turk).

Louis,

[MK_HenryV]

I agree with Gregoshi on this issue. Everyone I speak to brings pav arbs for one reason and one reason only; they know the other bugger is going to bring em and if you don't you are gonna get shot to hell.
However, just brining a blitz army tends to make the games very short and equally as boring.
The use of pav arbs in MP games does bring a touch of skill, and the massive enjoyment I get from spanking an entire unit of pavs with a sneak attack by alan cav cannot be overstated. Besides it's a means of drawing out their cav/billmen/pike/whatever so that they get shot to hell as well.

One of the MK clan swears by Arquebastar@s and I notice that they are better in hand to hand than pavs, so always worth a look. The biggest dissapointment as an English faction player is the weakness of longbow.

We already have games titled no arty regularly in MP, I wonder when the day will come when it says NO ARTY, NO MISSILE AT ALL

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ April 08 2003,08:07)]That is very practical advice Crackslapper. And sad too. Your advice is the reason I have a problem with them - the expectation that you have to have them to stand a chance to win. Is winning so important that everyone comes to the battlefield with the same cookie-cutter army? Boring.

Er, sorry, I'll put away my soapbox... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I ran across someone whose army was entirely composed of pav arbs once... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Guthwyn]

This question seemed appropriate for the current line of responses regarding what is required in an army.

I have never played MP. When one designs an army and is playing with allies, can one coordinate with the allies to get troops best for each faction? In other words, is it possible to have your Engish faction ally concentrate on arbalesters/longbows and billmen while one playing as the Turks concentrates on JHI and JI? Or is everyone expected to make a stand-alone army?

Thanks,

Guthwyn

[chuachinsoon]

Actuall I was more interested in campaign mode as I'm not playing MP (I've only got a 56k dialup modem). But I gathered from the discussion that Pav Arbs are the way to go. Thanks guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Aelwyn]

It depends on where you are in the campaign though. In arid games guns can help a lot, while accompanied by arbs. In the desert, don't take Pav Arbs. They get tired and lose effectiveness quickly, and will be more of a liability. Instead, bring normal archers and guns in the desert. The guns won't act as a strictly missle unit (if upgraded they can be used as h2h as well). Also guns will cause fear, and won't get as tired. Keep them away from enemy archers though, as their slow fire rate will make them vulnerable to enemy arrows.

[ABG]

I like Pavs. U can use them not only to kill enemies pavs. Most ppl only use them for that, but u can go close to the enemy and shoot h2h units. Even u can try to lure the enemy to spoil some cavs in killing them.
If u see an alan cav near just take a cav and deploy it near but be calm, dont rush, and of course, dont run with the pavs, just hold the position and lets see if the alans kill them so easy.
I always pick pavs +3 armour, it means 9 armour (like lancers...), so u have time enough to arrive there with the cavs without rushing, and have also time to shoot the cavs with the other pavs units.

If u have superiority in pavs units it is very nice (and skills required) to separate ur army, send the extra/s units of pavs to the enemy flank with some foot troops and cavs. Is really very funny, but u have to take care to the enemy react, normally he start getting angry ( http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) and normally rush u. So u need to be separate but with coordination, so in the rush moment u can react soon.

IMO, the funny doesnt depends on the army u pick but in the way u use ur army.

And in STW i couldnt imagine a fight without the smoke of the muskts...

[Crackslapper]

Hi Gregoshi,
Yes alot of what you say is right, but we are talking about the Steppes map here. There are hundreds of maps where pav arbs are not as important, but with the nature of Steppes, range is vital and if you dont have it you have limited choices.
For all their failings I have to agree with Henry V on this, no pav arbs means a rush army with is the most boring of games. I like the way the game is slowed with pav arbs and allows you time to try and pull his army apart with your cav.