"Not so bold" vice...

[Kristaps]

Hello,

Que injustice My king, Knud III, a 9 star general, has been killing an average of a couple hundred peasants, urban milita, and the like per every battle faught since he was 16... Then, all of a sudden, in the year AD 1212, after a successful penal expedition to Moscow to teach a lesson to the Russian tzar, Knud returns home to his Stockholm castle with Not so bold vice... And how the heck did he earn that??? He has not been avoding fight in ANY of the battles he faught... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[malkuth]

Luck of the draw.

V&V are very very strange in this game. But im sure and hope in the next incarnation they start making more sense.

You lose one battle and your general is no good anymore. If you run in battle but dont lose he still no good anymore.

The - Valore vices need some tweaking.

[Plaxx]

Yes, hopefully the good people at CA are updating and tweaking the V&Vs.

I would love a way to reverse a bad vice, so that if you make one mistake in your career you aren't stuck with it forever.

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (malkuth @ Jan. 26 2003,22:04)]Luck of the draw.

V&V are very very strange in this game. But im sure and hope in the next incarnation they start making more sense.

You lose one battle and your general is no good anymore. If you run in battle but dont lose he still no good anymore.

The - Valore vices need some tweaking.
Yep, you can sometimes avoid the good runner vice in lost causes. Give him the command withdraw from battle. Sometimes he will cut his way out without ever routing (or getting or captured). Might even get famously brave or some such if he kills enough single handedly. I learned this from watching the AI generals escape without getting the runner vice.

[SmokWawelski]

Yet another undocumented feature... I will try this as well, alas I hope that I will not have to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Brutal DLX]

Not so bold, that is my favourite vice, if such a thing exists, I have to chuckle every time I read that in a general's stat sheet. Of course, I only chuckle if it's an enemy general.

[malkuth]

This is why The bad vices for loseing a battle is broken.

Example battle with Me As England and agiast Germany. They atacked me. My Army was besieging one of his castles. His army numbered over 2000 mine was about 950.

Basically my high ranking boys held out for 3 waves. Lost many many men, but we held on. Finally on 4th wave my general and his men charged down the hill and broke the 4th wave. My men and general where pretty dead. I had about maybe 4 units left on map and with about 50 men total out of all them. Then a Fifth wave came and my general and men couldnt hold them. They retreated.

End results over 1800 Enemy Dead (I killed Prisoners) I lost well over 800.

My 6 Star General instead of getting a feaking medal destroying a very dangerous army (even though he lost this battle, this battle won the war) he get a GOOD RUNNER VICE.

TOTAL BULL CRAP.

THE GUY SHOULD BE GIVEN LAND AND ABOUT 50 WIVES FOR THIS OR SOMETHING. Not a GOOD RUNNER VICE.

I Hope If RTW has vices they are not like the POS Vices in MTW. I like MTW but the Vices stink

[Rhysy]

Vices and virtues don't seem to correlate with one another at all... my last English King was a religious fanatic, but also a secret heretic How the heck does that work ???

[powdermonkey]

It seems the biggest problem is the 'random' v&v's that the princes get when the come of age.
I recently had an English prince (Albert I think) who came out with the 'coward' virtue at 16. He was a six star general (seems a bit weird havin a great commender being a coward http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ), then after winning his first battle against the scots almost single handedly, he became a skilled attacker and famously brave, but was still a coward aswell.
You can't get rid of the bad vices they start with, but you can try to moderate them with a couple of good ones, where possible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Jxrc]

I got the cowardly vice in a very strange way.

Playing as Spain, I had reach Syria and my 8 stars general (no good vice, no bad one either) was in charge.

The Turks attacks my 2,500 with about four thousand. Their idiotic general on his camel start climbing the hill alone. Oddly enough that moron gets killed. The first wave of the Turkish armies retreats having lost about 500 men. Since it is a desert battle I don't use my general's unit of royal knights (too hot for them).

Next two turns, same things happens and Turkish general get killed or run away. They retreat so fast that I do not have enough time to fire all my arrows. Do I use my general's unit ? Of course not since I hate to have heavy cavalry smashed by camels and peasants because they are exhausted after they have run 300 meters ...

Next two turns, the Turks attack again. They just show up and decide its way to hot for a bloody battle. No figthing thus.

Result : my general get the cowardly vice (not coward)with an nice -6 morale and -2 loyalty penalty ... Ain't that amusing ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[cugel]

Result : my general get the cowardly vice (not coward)with an nice -6 morale and -2 loyalty penalty ...

I had the same thing happen to me when I was fighting the horde. I smashed their army, but didn't use my 9 star general as I didn't need to and didn't want to risk him. Next turn, he gets the cowardly vice for avoids combat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

I thought that was totally absurd since I routed the enemy, so I reloaded and refought. This time I was careful to use my general - his unit killed about 60 for a loss of 5 and chased the fleeing enemy to the edge of the map before they escaped. I figured that he couldn't have been much more aggressive than that. WRONG

Next turn, HE STILL GOT THE FRIGGING COWARDLY VICE for avoiding combat I couldn't believe it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

I think that the game just tries to screw you by loading up your generals with vices as you become more dominant and try to finish the game. I reloaded again, and used my king, moved the general out of the province. Next turn nothing happened. Perhaps it was an undocumented bug, at least I hope so. (It would totally suck if this were an intended feature)

I also noticed that late in the game your governors become corrupt or family trader in only 1 or 2 turns I have been constantly replacing them and the replacements immediately become corrupt in their turn. Pretty soon I'll run out of adequate replacements. I have to keep a small army of emissaries to remove all the corrupt governors
This also is not a feature I particularly enjoy, since I now have to micromanage the governors to prevent them from skimming off 20% of my trade or farm income They start at 5 or 10% and if you don't remove them, they get more and more corrupt, until they're taking 20% or more I hate having to check all the province governors each turn to figure out who needs to be replaced this turn

[Kongamato]

While this is definitely something that does not belong in the game, it is present in real life. A permanent vice can be acquired through the smallest mistake, it just has to be at the right time. Dan Quayle, anyone?

[Longshanks]

The funniest vice description I thought was for the Cowardly one I think.

Is that the one where in the desrciption it says something like his men say he was last seen running off the battlefield screaming like a girl?

Haha...I haven't gotten it yet, I'm always careful with my general's unit, but not too careful to keep them out of the scrap. I noticed the Egyptian Sultan had it though after I beat him twice, both times he fled the field before his army.

The V&V are a little bit strange though. I keep getting generals whose V&V contradict one another. Like...Devout and Athiest, or Devout and Perversion, Chivalrous and Secret Pride.(killing those who disagree with you isn't chivalrous)

[Heraclius]

You think cowardly is funny, you should see crack brained. If I remember right its something like his habit of sucking horseshoes and dancing in moonbeams has unnerved his servants. Great stuff Ha This game cracks me up. Especially when the crack brained virtue belongs to nine-star, fearless warrior/leader kings.

[Foreign Devil]

Kongamato is right. Medieval battles had very high stakes- it may not have been a General's fault that he had lost the battle, but that don't change the fact that the battle was lost.

The screaming like a girl one is Dubious courage, I think. A General has to run away several times to get it. Very funny no matter what its called.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[efstratios]

Hey,

that exactly why I was asking the other day if anyone has managed to mod the V&V in MTW. It seems that this is hard coded though.

From my limited experience, it is possible to add goodies to a general by using him to recklessly charge the enemy, while no bonus is given by hunting down run away units (no matter the count of prisoners or dead). Of course, there is always the chance that this proves fatal or that the unit breaks, in that case back to square one.

You may avoid this by carefully choosing the genera's targets. For instance, Kataphraktoi against peasants or archers. The AI will send something like saracen infantry to the rescue or even ghulam cavalry. Let struggle go on, but closely monitor the head count. As soon as the first red flag blinks send 2 units of byzantine infantry and or spearmen. As soon as they engage, withdraw the general from the spot to a safe location. Bingo, he becomes brave or something related, It works every time.

E

[SmokWawelski]

I would soak the damn parchement in blood of fallen enemies: slaughter, I see slaughter....

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[eat cold steel]

In VI, the VnV can be undone. The avoiding combat line is related to the % of kills comparing to the rest of your men. For example if you have some real hard nuts in your army and they kill tonnes of enemy by themselves then your general will look bad to his men and will pick up the reputation of being cowardly. On the battlefield reputation is often more important then real personality.

[Gregoshi]

So you're saying that generals have to bloody their swords to avoid those bad VnVs?

It is also nice to hear that VnVs can be undone in VI.

[HindSight2020]

OK, but how much does this affect future battles? To tell you the truth, I haven't paid attention to V&V in a long time. After conquering half the world and having emissaries in key places on the rest of the map, it takes forever for the game to get to the point where I can do anything. It would get to be very tedious if I had to examine my generals before going into battle. And according to some of the posts, it doesn't seem to make any difference since the bad V&V happen anyway. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I've been satisfied just to go into a battle with numerical and technical superiority.

[ShadesPanther]

One time i got a guy who likes little boys and also has affairs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif