Trading Posts and Merchants

[ThaiGuy]

Perhaps an elementary question, but then again, I'm an elementary kind of guy.

For interior, land-locked countries in my faction, does it do any good to build trading posts and merchants? Or do they only generate additional income when they are in countries with a port? How about land-locked but bordering a competing faction?

Input is appreciated.

Thanks.

[smakkz]

well some places doesnt it pay off before in the long run like in mid germany, france and etc... if there is only one trading goods and you know it won't get in much money before in the long run then dont. And no, you cant trade with bordering provinces, enemy (of course), neutral or even ally. The goods are sold within the province, but there are som places worth your time and money, The Turks have excellent inland provinces, where it's actually profitable to build. If you are in the beginning of the game and build either troops or go for the farms.. hope that answers your question good enough

[Gregoshi]

Hello smakkz.

I've wondered the same thing ThaiGuy. smakkz, how extensively have you experimented with inland trading? I checked the Table of Content topic in the Main Hall and the only discussions on trade are about sea routes.

There has to be some benefit to those inland provinces loaded with trade goods. Otherwise, why bother putting the trade goods in those provinces? I wonder if you create a chain of merchants from province to province it serves as an overland trade route.

I don't mean to contest what you are saying smakkz. There doesn't seem to be much discussion about inland trading. Of course, maybe there is a reason for that as you said. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[komninos]

Has anyone Attempted to built an agent unit with the ship abilities to create trade routes?
Any way one of the many profit trades the big landlords had was initially to raid convoys and “Tax” them …
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Aelwyn]

I agree with smakkz. The province of Rum is landlocked, and has 3 goods to trade, I think. You make a decent income, but nothing even close to that of the trade if you have Constantinople, Flanders, Milan, etc. and trade routes. So when it gets down to paying maybe 2500 and waiting 8 or so years, the difference in income isn't worth it some times, since you're going to have to wait maybe 12-15 years to see a profit from the building.

That is usually how I judge whether or not I'm going to upgrade the farmland. Depending on the current year, if I'm not going to see profit within 10-15 years from completion its usually not worth the money and time invested.

[Beowulf]

Hello All

This is my first participation in the comunity, so please be kind http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I guess that like already been said, inland trade works just like farms, it gives a money profit in mid to long terms. But, considering that the game will take about 200 years a construction that star making profit within 15 a very good deal. Its important to consider, that are extremely dangerous u rely all your economics in sea trade, been so, if u can explore every kind of profit potencial in your inlands territory u should do it.

[ThaiGuy]

Thanks for the toughts.

I guess the true test is to see in campaign mode what kind of payoff is derived. Maybe it does boost income, but will it boost it enough to justify the expense. I'll report back here what I discover.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org Beowulf. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif I happy to see your registration problem solved.

I happen to agree with both your points. It is a long game, and those florin add up over the years, especially if you can keep good governors in office.

You also have a good point about sea trade. I've heard plenty of sad tales of huge treasuries going in the tank once the sea trade routes get shutdown due to wars.

[TosaInu]

Hello Beowulf,

I was looking at your account and saw that you got it running, welcome.

[cugel]

There has to be some benefit to those inland provinces loaded with trade goods. Otherwise, why bother putting the trade goods in those provinces? I wonder if you create a chain of merchants from province to province it serves as an overland trade route.

I don't think it works that way, Gregoshi. Inland provinces can only trade with neighboring provinces (assuming they are either neutral or allied). If one of your inland provinces is surrounded by either enemies or by your own provinces it can't trade with anyone (but local). Check your economic screen and see which provinces you're trading with.

Remember that this is the Middle Ages There wasn't all that much inter-province land trade (other than the spice trade through the Middle East). The only decent roads in Europe were old Roman roads (not maintained by anyone). Every local lord would attempt to tax or even rob passing merchants. The difficulty of movement by land, the lack of security and the expense involved made it unprofitable to move anything but the most valuable goods very far by land. This would continue to be true well into the modern era. Trade by river ought to have been easier (say along the Rhine), but passing through a multitude of districts along the river, each one of which had the power to tax goods made it also difficult.

The game accurately reflects reality. There's really no comparison between sea and land trade during this era. Movement of goods by sea would remain much cheaper and much easier right up into the 19th century. Being land-locked generally meant cultural and economic stagnation. That's why Peter the Great built St. Petersburg and moved his capital there, to create a window on the world.

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] ]Check your economic screen and see which provinces you're trading with.


Eh, that would require actually playing the game, wouldn't it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Maybe next week I'll get to play. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Beowulf]

Thank u for the welcome

i agree with Cugel. I had only one doubt. Even after many decades of play, i´ve never seen a inland territory trade with neighbours, only the local trade.

regarding Sea trade, i always rush to get all that enormous income that it can generates, but i save almost 70 % of it, keeping my exoenses short, So whn the war comes ( and it will ) i wont crash without that income. The big picture is: Dont count on this income, make your permanent expenses bases on your land production.

[ThaiGuy]

I've concluded that it at least for the merchants, it doesn't pay to build them in landlocked countries. If you click on a country to see what buildings are there, left click on your trading post or merchant. For any inland territory, the trading post or merchant generates only abot 18 florins per year, which certainly isn't worth the building cost investment.

The conclusion: Build trading posts and merchants only in countries with ports.

[ThaiGuy]

What'd you know....

Got promoted.

[cugel]

i agree with Cugel. I had only one doubt. Even after many decades of play, i´ve never seen a inland territory trade with neighbours, only the local trade.

I checked this and you're right Only local trade. You can't even trade with provinces that are next door, friendly, and neutral This makes building the higher trading merchants useless in inland provinces. I think that Wes even made a port a requirement for larger merchant buildings to keep the AI from wasting money on them (only coastal provinces can have a port of course).

[chuachinsoon]

I agree with Beowulf and Gregoshi. The SP game takes a long time to complete and any investment is worthwhile after a period of time. I managed to keep my treasury at >1 million florins coz I kept upgrading farmlands of all my provinces. Most of the game, I was without sea trade because people kept declaring war on me or attacking my ships, especially Byzantine and the Papacy. Keeping my garrisons small was another key to saving florins.

[SmokWawelski]

I have heard that when Wes (SP?) was constructing his MOD he used the 20 years ROI (return on investment) rule, which seemed to be used for the game. I do not think he tinkered with the inland trade, but as somebody gave an example of 18 florins a year, it surely does not follow that rule...

Oh, I just remembered a joke, and nothing is as good as some fun:

A non-brunette girl buys energy-efficent windows and agrees with the salesman to use credit as a payment method. Some time pases by and the contractor calls about the payments not beeing made. Since there are no responses, he shows up at the door one day and asks the lady for money, using rather rude language. She replies:
Do not try to play me into paying you twice: the salesman said that these windows would paid for themselfs after a year of use...

[HindSight2020]

When I first started playing the game, I would build Trading Posts in inland provinces. I don't remember ever seeing any return, and I came to the conclusion that it was like throwing good florin after bad. It seems strange that there are provinces with great resources that cannot be traded unless there is a neighboring province that is neutral or allied (enemies will not trade with you). How long can you sit there with a neighboring province in order to recoup the investment? The whole thing seems like a part of the game that cannot be taken advantage of. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Doge Enrico II]

All your provinces with trade goods and posts link to the sea province(s). It's kind of like the sea routes. At least, I think so.