Playing Turkish at expert, help from another newbi

[Kensai Achilles]

Helloowww Everyone This is my first post here, this forum helps me a lot so I thought I'd be helpful in return (at least for those who just start the campaign).

After I played Germans and Danes -early period-at easy level http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif now I'm playing my 3rd campaign as the Turkish -expert, late period- and it's much easier than I thought

we can take constantinople in a few turns since the start (a must&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and boy a bunch of goodies it has there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif then after that just pick up the trails that the mongols left up northeast (kazar and beyond). I dunno why but the golden hordes seems to be interested in attacking russians and westward instead of southward (to reflect history??) I even captured the khan in armenia after I sealed georgia shortly and get around 40K florins because their main armies are scattered far northwest. (less than 20 turns since the start I think... don't remember - now I'm conquering spanish at cordoba and game's almost over so it's been too long)

anyways, I used saracen infantries, muwahids, and turcoman/ horse archers a lot against the horde and plus ghulam bodyguard/armenian cavalries to outflank and route them (after series of loads and saves lol ... ) and yeah preferrably in the woods ... turkish cavs are not very strong so best use them wisely.

Its not easy to start with one province with a mere 4k florins so i have rather slim and efficient armies. but the bright side is our generals will be well trained from numerous battles. I only have 2 level 9 generals both cavalries and expert or skilled attackers/defenders with valor at 10 and 12 ... one in north wreaked havoc in france (3 stacks, not conquering just marching slash and burn without a fight, I call it a tour de france picnichttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) and the other one -2 stacks- taught almohads a few lessons in south. the rest are level 4 and below except the lv 7 king and occasional lv 6 heirs that I rarely use because they often just become the sentinels (guarding provinces).

I also have two groups of spies, each has ten spies and spreading rebellions here and there. That way I don't need too many troops... just twenty spies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Then bribe the rebellls if they have cool ranks or canons (choose command to fight yourself if you must, but do not deploy, then escape unharmed).

We can get the florins we need from capturing-releasing enemy kings.(in my case I let the russian king lives as a cash cow, around 11K florins) ... just make sure they have no heir and they still have one territory to escape. If your armies are large enough (or if you feel bored) you might actually put your king in deadlocked zone, and put tax very high, that ought to brush the fire of peasant rebellions then quench them and get lotsa florins

since reappearing factions/rebellions concern many players, just remember to put your king in the province with a port if you can and don't let him deadlocked away from other provinces (reflects communication I think). after that are just the concern of governors in check and the enemy spies (this has been discussed somewhere in different threads)

I have a few questions for you guys and also a few technical comments but I think I've written too long that i feel like rambling now I should stop... so I hope this helps

cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[ToranagaSama]

I smell Rebellion in the air.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org Kensai Achilles. That is quite a first post

The one thing that leap off the screen at me was I only have 2 level 9 generals... Only two What's it like? I'm playing and HRE campaign (my first) and the closest I've come to a level 9 general is level 6, and he was a prince and a nut.

If I ever do get around to finishing that campaign, I'd definitely like to try one of the Muslim factions. Probably Turks or Egyptians.

[Kensai Achilles]

thank you Gregoshi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

and about the generals I didn't mean to sound like a bighead ... well it's big already

Quote

Gregoshi: The one thing that leap off the screen at me was I only have 2 level 9 generals... Only two What's it like?


I've read a thread somewhere where they said they had many lv 9 generals so thats why.

--potential spoilers below for some people --

1. Actually mine started with lv 3 command but governor titles like trebizond trumped one up +2. Then if we take out constantinople it's filled with a fortress, constable palace, marshal palace and admiralty...... mmm mmm mmm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
those titles will boost them up further to lv 7, and not to mention accumen for constantinople governor ... money that is...Then with good virtues developed from slaughtering the mongols they'll get +2 command in battle field until they are eventually full fledged lv 9 and the virtue can no longer help further

so CA is quite reasonable I think, giving only one province to start with ... plus hostile teritories.... but with resourceful neighbors http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

2. In my campaign the turkish seriously lacks lv 4 heavy cav generals (except a few coward and nut lv 6 heirs and lv 0s ) so it took a while for me to wait for the candidates to appear ...I wouldn't want to waste those titles for urban militias or archers

3. Btw let the generals be the first ones to charge in easy battles, that'll give them another good virtue and extra valor the higher the valor the tougher they are no?

4. We're less than likely to be able take constantinople in a few turns, moreover facing the hordes shortly but fortunately the rebel armies nearby are putting up a sign: For Hired

5. One more thing, I accidentally killed the khan ( lil devil refused to be taken prisoner and be my cash cow ) and out of nowhere... later on the mongols reappeared again and refused to be my piggy bank again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif .

only once they reappeared, prolly cuz my king was on vacation but I wonder if it's part of history

Hope it helps

Cheers

[Vlad The Impaler]

i usually get 4-5 level 9 general with french turks or danish ( my favourite factions in SP )
with the turks is easy to have especially by brothers of sultans ;

[Kensai Achilles]

forget to add; having small armies and go out into battle outnumbered most of the time will be rewarded ...

with nice virtues for the generals that is, try it out

[Kensai Achilles]

ahhhh .... just finished early turkish campaign at expert and still have around 40 turns or so till the mongols popping out ... don't think I want to wait that long.... I'm ready though ... We can do it much faster I think.

-- again below are whole bunch of spoilers and yapping for some people --

My focus was racing with time to prepare for mongol invasion so i hired lots of worthy rebels early

1. I used the strategy in late period except I killed all the kings early and hired the remaining ronin armies. I figured I wanted to do that to collect those ronins since I had limited number of military buildings ready but had wealthy provinces spawning from constantinople to egypt at the begining. so my focus was economy and development (that includes having 3 dedicated shipbuilders)

2. I don't know if this is just a coincidence but somewhere near kiev we can keep territories hostile and collect the rebels consisting of pronois and boyars http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif so that covered the turks cavalry deficiencies. I also kept Ireland, scottland, and norway hostile and hired lots of feudal knights, templar knights, feudal foots and archers (plus limitting the english and danes) ...i'd disband those archers unless they had 5 accumen -or 4 accumen plus a few dreads would be nice-

3. I let the byz to escape to the 3 small islands south of anatolia and made them trading partners (small agriculture there, byz won't grow to be a threat)

So I paused expansion after reaching egypt to make florins then launched surprise amphibious attacks to spain. (having killed the almohad king and recruited his ronins)

4. Rather than having an army of spies, i had an army of emissaries instead to do the bribing. (I assigned 3 emissaries to 1 stack of ronins)

It's just my preference, i'd rather have minimum florins balance (goes to bribing rebels and infrastructures) instead of having an idle 1 million... but whichever works best for you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

5. If we bribe the rebels inside their castles the buildings will be left intact (if we need local infratructures like armourer and such).

6. We can groom our heirs to the best probability (this is another thread discussion somewhere)

7. If we siege a castle, throw an overwhelming number of troops and select auto battle the casualty will be very low... even without a single siege weapon (go figure... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ) so i didn't bother building siege weapons. (in late games I love hails of cannon bals http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )

8. Build lots of saracen infantries, their numbers can ensure loyaties ofthe new provinces. So we can conquer almost every/other turn. (spies can help too) I also had a whole lot of turcoman horse archers.

9. I'd keep a few governor resorts where governors and candidates reside, which have units with 5 accumen and up plus a few dread (florins and loyalty)... this way things r much manageable

10. ctrl-S and ctrl-L ... story of the day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Have fun... think i'm gonna play english now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I'm getting bored of playing the same simple way...I'm sure you have great strategies... so share with us

[Kensai Achilles]

I should have added this long time ago, so here we go.

As a note; i wrote that a while back using v1.0 patch so the rebelion was quite treacherous but part of the strategies above pretty much took advantage of the super rebelions. (super as in stacks of rebel's medium-heavy cavalries, good rebel generals, cannons etc)

I've played them over using v.1.1 with same strategy and since the challenge from super rebellion is drastically reduced thus the benefit from bribing super armies is also reduced. I don't think there's a super rebel at all in v1.1. Subsequently the overall challenge is slashed down as well and the focus should then changed. As an example, acquiring rebel generals with high accumen and other good stats for governors becomes a better priority.

The good thing is that its not all about bribing as some would consider cheesy. a strategy for a more hostile AI also works (if not better) for a less challenging environment. Slim, and superior army. I don't think fighting outnumbered constitutes as cheesy. Exciting and could be frustrating sometimes (initially, until it grows into the dominant army by having high valors and overall quantities). Plus it does good for the economy, by having less army maintenance budget, thus gives extras for infratructure, ie happiness and trade buildings. In turn we can increase taxes with minimum risk of rebelions even during wars with minimum garrisons. IMO I'd call it thorough and no cheese http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The first part above is for Late era, the next one is for Early. Since I mentioned turco horse archers, in case one doesn't know they are best used in divide and conquer fashion. Another way is to send out a wave of turco HA against AI, route them after out of ammo, send in another wave (reinforcements) over and over. Lastly, I played the campaigns with an objective of conquest, fast and aggressively, with a support of good economy, thus preferably with some micromanagement each turn.

Good luck Have fun.

Edited:
- elaborating non cheesy bribery in the third paragraph
- click here, a taste of bloody outnumbered battle for new players (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=3564;hl=kensai+achilles)
- some of wolf clan members are excellent horse archers players. I would recommend new players to visit their web site to learn from their replays.

[Tigger]

Just to add that you should check out my thread on this in the main hall if you plan to play the Turkish.

I have found (from bitter experience) that it is safer to take out the Egyptians first before going for Constantinople. That way you can be pretty sure of only having one front to fight on

[Kensai Achilles]

I'm not sure about AI behaviour for other mods but I played these ones using normal patches. 2 patches and 2 era, so that means i've played them 4 times during winter break, my fave campaigns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I didn't want to give deailed spoilers but i suppose i'm going to add a bit details on this (taken from my 2nd post):

4. We're less than likely to be able take constantinople in a few turns, moreover facing the hordes shortly but fortunately the rebel armies nearby are putting up a sign: For Hire

I simply use the starting 4k florins to bribe surrounding rebels. If we take the teritory by force then the garrison will be depleted. That risks having a heavy rebelion in 1.0 patch. Secondly being depleted will encourage egypt and the hordes to attack.

So it would be best if we can corner byzantine's king and get at least 10k florins ransom. Then use the florins to get more units to strengthen borders either by bribing or producing.
By then we shud get at least 2 high level generals from all the titles that we get from constantinople and trebizond (refer to my point one on my 2nd post). horse archers are vital. get some MP games replays, they'll help tremenduously.

its ok to lose a minor rear territory to rebels, but don't lose constantinople. It's better for a province to rebel sometimes if u r pushed thin, since u can bribe them later on and gain strong garrison much faster than producing. It can also be useful to let a territory to rebel since this way u'll get a buffer zone from egyptians or the hordes . Your gen at constantinople will gain experience fast and has a better chance of gaining expert defender virtue (plus 2 command star i think, thus valor upgrades for the army).

the 3 kings ransom r very useful for the intial, critical expansion. U gonna enjoy the battles i bet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Hope this helps, cheers.

edit: typo