Royal Assassins.

[Coldstream]

When I make my first tavern, I immediately make 5 Assassins. From time to time, at least one of these assassins will come right out of the pipe with anywhere from 3-5 stars. He is my Royal Assassin.

But of course, just because he's got 3 stars doesn't mean I'm going to send him after my unloyal son or some troublesome French General. No, I spend at least 10 years training him.

What you first need is a Province that isn't making any troops. You need to devote this area solely to the creation of assassins. These assassins are not going to go out and kill people -no, they are going to sit tight and get a dagger suffed through their windpipes.

If you've not caught on to what I'm suggesting, I'm talking about using your Royal Assassin to assassinate your assassins. Sure this can cost in excess of 2000 Florins, but the payoff is immense By using your Royal Assassin to kill your assassins, he gains valour points.

The advantage to all this slaughter of your assassins is that no one outside of you, the dead man, and your killer know about all of it. You don't lose and influence or valour for it, and ytour countrymen are unaftected.

Once your man has valoured-up to your liking, keep him with your king, or with a commander on campaign. Before you go into battle you can send in your assassin and slit the throat of the enemy's General. Morale penalties for the enemy ahoy

With a bit of political juggling, you can arrange marriages with, say, France, then methodically kill every last heir they have, and either wait for the king to die, or slit his throat as well. Congratulations, you've used a 100 Florin assassin to hijack half of France's lands.

[A.Saturnus]

I like to use the assassin game, every new assassin must kill an old assassin before he is ready. The good thing is, when he doesn`t manage to do it and gets killed, the other assassin can get valour. But usually I leave after some years. Takes to much micromanagement...

[Gaius Julius]

You could just assassinate: priests/alims, princessess, emmissaries. This is a very easy way to boost your assassin's rank. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[SmokWawelski]

Yes, I know that it works, but I cannot get to kill my own people. Not a lot of medieval king in me, huh ?

Oh times, oh morals http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[solypsist]

yes I agree with you there Smok, I like to consdier myself a Good King, at least to my own people, so I dislike setting assassins on anyone but the enemy - or the occasional neutral emissary.
for the cost of buying an assassin that I'm going to kill anyway, I can buy a useful unit for my armies.

[Hermann the Lombard]

G.J.: the problem with practicing on princesses is that their guards are a bit too effective, sometimes.

[A Nerd]

If you leave an assasin in a busy port they act like watch towers killing visiting assasins and spies. Iv'e gotten valor 0 spies and assasins to valor 5 by just sitting in a province with a port. Works better when more factions are still alive. But training through killing is also good. I one time killed an inquisitor of my own because he was no good at it

[Lehesu]

I prefer inquisitors to kill folks but I don't have any qualms with fetching my assasins on my own guys. They live unnaturally long lives anyway...

[Gaius Julius]

Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ Jan. 14 2003,12:36)]Yes, I know that it works, but I cannot get to kill my own people.
Actually, I wasn't referring to my people.

I mean't assassinate rival faction's: priest/alim, princessess, emmissaries.

Hope that clears it up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

BTW, Hermann, you're right, sometimes the princessess' guards are too effective.
Still shouldn't stop you from trying. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Alrowan]

hmm... intersting.. i have a 5 star assassin who i call the bishop slayer

[A.Saturnus]

The problem with killing foreign agents is that if your assassin doesn`t have success, you got nothing. You can lose even good assassins that way. By killing your own assassins, you win either way.

[y2kBug]

I've had mixed success with killing foreign agents (even in my own provinces) as the computer for some reason learns of the 'plot' and the enemy agent gets the heck out of Dodge with the assassin in tow. A couple of crossed borders later and *poof* one dead assasin. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Hermann the Lombard]

[QUOTE]The problem with killing foreign agents is that if your assassin doesn`t have success, you got nothing. You can lose even good assassins that way. By killing your own assassins, you win either way. [\QUOTE]

It would be amusing if CA put in the possibility of an assassin going rogue or even a revolt of the assassins against a ruler who kills his own assassins...

y2kbug: That's particularly a problem pre-patch when you don't have an indicator of assassins abroad on a mission. I also frequently fail to remember to retrieve a successful assassin who is now idle in a foreign province.

[jimmi6j]

When i was playing the italians i set up my own little assassination school on sicily ( i thought it appropriate) generally i would use emissaries or spies as targets for my 2* or less assassins and then get the 3* assassins to attack the 2* assassins and so on... eventually i had about 20 5* assassins ... i killed off the almohads totally, but given the amount of micromanagement i had to use i would probably had been better off using 5 provinces to build spies and then just go nutz with rebellion sowing spies ... less MM

[Coldstream]

Hardly.

Spies are not NEARLY as satisfying as seeing that graphic of a slain General.

[Freezuch]

I can't seem to get my assasin higher than level 6, even though I was killing level 4 generals and heirs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Did anyone managed to get past that mark?

[Lord Xeen]

Quote[/b] (Freezuch @ Jan. 16 2003,09:35)]I can't seem to get my assasin higher than level 6, even though I was killing level 4 generals and heirs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Did anyone managed to get past that mark?
I never did. I got a level 5 assassin (via the port method mentioned above), and I had him clearing out enemy generals and stopping all those troublesome Inquisitions that would start up, but he never once even got past 5. Then again, he never failed either.

Ah, Guy of Gisborne, my most loyal 178 year old assassin...

[R3dD0g]

After reading this I tried the tactic. I built 5 assassins and found one of the newbies was a 2*. So he would be my 'Royal'. After killing 3 of his brethren he was up to 3*. Quite disappoing. So I set him on the last of the original 5 AND HE DIED

I'm not going to try this stuff anymore.

[Coldstream]

lol, that's just dumb, blind bad luck. I've never had my royal be killed by one of his underlings. Maybe I just have smart, 20/20-vision luck. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[R3dD0g]

After reading about my dumb, stupid luck, I decided to try again. Can't be unlucky twice ... right?

I built 5 more assassins, all 0* this time. And sent my last 5* (built the old fashioned way) after them. The first 3 were no problem but also no increase in valor. The 4th of course killed my 5*. Fortunately I had saved before each attack and didn't lose my only assassin.

I'm really wondering about this technique.

[eXoMagus]

Lord Xeen, if I remember correctly, isn't Guy of Gisborne from Robin Hood?

[Gaius Julius]

Quote[/b] (Hermann the Lombard @ Jan. 15 2003,14:45)]That's particularly a problem pre-patch when you don't have an indicator of assassins abroad on a mission. I also frequently fail to remember to retrieve a successful assassin who is now idle in a foreign province.
I've lost a few good assassins this way.
If you don't move him to friendly territory quickly, he tends to get killed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Coldstream]

Quote[/b] (R3dD0g @ Jan. 17 2003,00:10)]After reading about my dumb, stupid luck, I decided to try again. Can't be unlucky twice ... right?

I built 5 more assassins, all 0* this time. And sent my last 5* (built the old fashioned way) after them. The first 3 were no problem but also no increase in valor. The 4th of course killed my 5*. Fortunately I had saved before each attack and didn't lose my only assassin.

I'm really wondering about this technique.
Hmm, then I honestly don't know. Perhaps I just get extra lucky or something :\

[R3dD0g]

Dumb stupid luck.

I once knew a fellow who said he had never won anything. So when the football board was released for the Super Bowl he said he'd buy the whole board to be sure to win. Unfortunately for him 2 squares had been sold before he got there. You guessed it, he bought 98 squares and still lost. And no it wasn't me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[R3dD0g]

And my dumb stupid rotten luck continues.

I sent my natural 5* Assassin after a 3* Alim who was nosing around my rear areas. The Alim hightailed it for home and the next thing I know my Assassin is being offed around Constantinople.

So I build 5 Assassins in the rear and all are 0*, I pick one with a good name and put him on his brother and 'good name' dies. Well, maybe brother can do better. Nope, his brother kills him.

To finish quickly (just like my assassin training program) I wind up with 1 0* Assassin.

[Coldstream]

That was funny. Your story of your cloaked men makes me laugh. At you.

[Efrem Da King]

I'm gonna try the port method later will get back to you.

[Arrowmaker]

Guys there has to be an element of chance, this more accurately reflects the abnormalities of life. Straight out MTW like all war isn't an exact science which is why it is so much fun and I might say frustrating at times.

[torkil]

2 questions:

Is there a good way to guard yourself against the problem with the damn assassin following some Alim overseas and getting killed in Konstantinopel for instance?

Will a 5* assassin get slaughtered as easily as a 0* assassin, trying to enter an assassin-protected region with border forts etc.?

[The_Emperor]

Too bad we don't have a super-assassin like the Geisha women in Shogun who cannot be killed by failing a mission (inquisitors are a bit like this but rely too much on zeal and have a very slim chance for success), Geishas were great and the video screen of them were so cool (I really did enjoy those little video screens of people getting killed in very nasty ways, they should have put some similar ones in Medieval)

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Hello torkil. So glad you signed on with us.

If you read the small print on the registration screen, you'd know that I really can't answer either of your questions with certainty. All I can do is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif at you and stall for time until someone who is knowledgable about the game comes along and helps you with a good answer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif I know it isn't much of a job but I have incredibly strong wrists for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif .

[torkil]

Hehehe... thats funny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

So I should wait until I receive my you-have-been-weighed-and-found-cute-enough-to-be-allowed-to-post confirmation, and then ask again? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Dogmeat]

The highest i had was a 7* assasin. Got him eventually in the late period by killing a LOT of kings, wiped out the Spanish that way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Then my campaign ended before i lvl him up again ... oh well

[Shaitan]

In my current Byz campaign I managed to train a lvl 9 assassain. Kings up to 5 stars are no problem. So you can finish off almost every faction. Took me about 20 years to kill all almohads heirs. Now the HRE is the biggest faction and my assassain is useless because they elect their kings from the generals if no heir is left. I think I have to beat them with my armys the conventional way.

[torkil]

So your assassin is not caught by spies or the border forts effect or anything?

[Shaitan]

Definitively, the assassin gets more resistant against things like border forts. Sometimes I also forget him after an assassination in an enemy province and he survived several years. But also with such a high level assassin its risky. I lost him on a 86% success mission (and didnt saved before http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Shaitan @ April 28 2003,04:14)]Definitively, the assassin gets more resistant against things like border forts. Sometimes I also forget him after an assassination in an enemy province and he survived several years. But also with such a high level assassin its risky. I lost him on a 86% success mission (and didnt saved before http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )
High level assassins should have a chance to escape, if the mission fails... Surely they must have a chance to run away

[Gregoshi]

But likewise they must always have a chance of getting caught too.

[Dogmeat]

good idea, there should be a chance of the assasin escaping if he fails to make the kill.
Doubt that'll be implemented though. Its kill or be killed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[SmokWawelski]

Aren't Inquisitors like that: if they fail the mission they are safe to move away(they are usually safe anyway, since the border forts/towers do not affect them and the AI must want to kill one with an assasin, which it usualy does not...)?

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ April 28 2003,08:22)]Aren't Inquisitors like that: if they fail the mission they are safe to move away(they are usually safe anyway, since the border forts/towers do not affect them and the AI must want to kill one with an assasin, which it usualy does not...)?
Inquisitors have an extremely slim chance of success, and this is totally dependent on Zeal. And an Inquisitor can make his job harder by decideing to burn the population one day...

Assassins should have a chance to get caught, and a chance to escape alongside (probably scaling based on unit valor). It could work and we would all be going through slightly fewer assassins

Also in Shogun we could train higher level Ninjas with higher tech level buildings, why didn't they put that feature in medieval? That way we wouldn't have all these problems training killers.

[Popeye]

Assassins following targets overseas and getting killed is a big problem.

I'd be happy if there were a default that would not allow any assassin to go out of friendly territory unless the target was already outside of my lands, and/or make it impossible for 0* assassins to leave friendly territory.

Think about it...you're the King of England...you tell your Intelligence Minister to remove a pesky Egyptian Alim in Wessex...he assigns an Assassin in Wessex to kill the Alim in Wessex...six months later, this junior assassin is found face-down in Copenhagen. Would you not be looking for a new Intelligence Minister?

Whether a target fleeing the country would cancel the mission or just have the assassin laying in wait for a return (or player cancellation of mission) doesn't matter much.

Bottom line for me is that you don't want Jethro Bodine turned loose on international missions. You want a REAL double-naught spy for that.

[Guthwyn]

In the best assassin game I've played, I had two 5* and one 6* assassin that I worked all they way from 0*. I loved having them, since anytime a faction would re-emerge and threaten my territory, I could finish off the leader before he aquired any more command (they usually appeared with 1 or 2) or, more importantly, any heirs.
Whenever I attacked the faction leader in this manner, he was usually beseiging the owner of the original territory. Not once did I lose an assassin to border forts, etc. in this situation (about half a dozen attempts). I'm not sure if this was luck or not. A number of times, the faction leaders were beseiging territory owned by rebels; maybe rebel border forts aren't as effective?

Guthwyn

[starkhorn]

Quote[/b] (Running Backwards @ Jan. 14 2003,16:31)]If you leave an assasin in a busy port they act like watch towers killing visiting assasins and spies. Iv'e gotten valor 0 spies and assasins to valor 5 by just sitting in a province with a port. Works better when more factions are still alive. But training through killing is also good. I one time killed an inquisitor of my own because he was no good at it
Agreed with this method. Putting an assassin in each province can really get you an army of 4-5assassins in no time. I only build the border forts so I can see the neighbouring armies....but I never built the upgrade to them. I let my assassin's catch spies and assassins in my province.

I found having a port makes a huge difference. My best provinces were Toulouse, Venice and Antioch. All with ports. they were killing an enemy agent per turn in each of these provinces. Once they get upto to lvl4 or so....then re-cycle your assassins, i.e, move in a 1 or 2 lvl assassin and get him improved.

The only problem I found was that as more faction gets knocked out then the less enemy agents are action. So you need to use this method as early as possible to get the best results.

Cheers
starkhorn

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (starkhorn @ April 29 2003,03:31)]
Quote[/b] (Running Backwards @ Jan. 14 2003,16:31)]If you leave an assasin in a busy port they act like watch towers killing visiting assasins and spies. Iv'e gotten valor 0 spies and assasins to valor 5 by just sitting in a province with a port. Works better when more factions are still alive. But training through killing is also good. I one time killed an inquisitor of my own because he was no good at it
Agreed with this method. Putting an assassin in each province can really get you an army of 4-5assassins in no time. I only build the border forts so I can see the neighbouring armies....but I never built the upgrade to them. I let my assassin's catch spies and assassins in my province.

I found having a port makes a huge difference. My best provinces were Toulouse, Venice and Antioch. All with ports. they were killing an enemy agent per turn in each of these provinces. Once they get upto to lvl4 or so....then re-cycle your assassins, i.e, move in a 1 or 2 lvl assassin and get him improved.

The only problem I found was that as more faction gets knocked out then the less enemy agents are action. So you need to use this method as early as possible to get the best results.

Cheers
starkhorn
Is it possible to get valor for catching the enemy agents? I never noticed it myself, but then I tend to use border forts a lot, maybe I should get rid of them?

Sounds like a good strategy if it works.

[starkhorn]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ April 29 2003,07:44)]Is it possible to get valor for catching the enemy agents? I never noticed it myself, but then I tend to use border forts a lot, maybe I should get rid of them?

Sounds like a good strategy if it works.
Oh yeah it's possible to get valour for your agents and spies using by catching enemy agent/spies in your own provinces. I use this method to get a val4 or val5 assassin before sending him out to kill enemy generals....thus I tend avoid losing agents to enemy border forts as my lads are good enough to avoid detection.

Cheers
Starkhorn

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (starkhorn @ April 29 2003,08:43)]Oh yeah it's possible to get valour for your agents and spies using by catching enemy agent/spies in your own provinces. I use this method to get a val4 or val5 assassin before sending him out to kill enemy generals....thus I tend avoid losing agents to enemy border forts as my lads are good enough to avoid detection.
Cheers chap I think I'll waste my Border forts soon and send my spies on to do other things (they are currently in a security role as well, but maybe they can spark a few rebellions here and there, and find out some V&V's in future) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[torkil]

After this thread I'm going to downsize my army and just keep the elite in stock, and work on a nice and large army of strategic agents

I really think religious agents should gain valor for converting an entire region from one religion to another http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif