Faction Impoverishmen

[Popeye]

I hit upon this by accident, and I'm not sure I'm seeing the full picture, but if I'm correct, this makes a lot of sense.

Okay, I've wiped out factions, only to have them re-appear at the most inconvenient time and place, with huge armies of elite troops. I'm not certain that it was without warning, but it has been known to happen on the death of my king, since that can change loyalty in a lot of places fast. I've also seen factions re-appear with a horde where just the year before there was only a small garrison of rebels.

So, anyway. I'm currently playing Expert Turk. I've wiped out one faction, the Egyptians, so that concerns me, but what can ya do, eh? And someone wiped out the Italians, and I have some of their former homeland right now, so re-emergence of Italians would be a problem.

However, I pushed the Byzantines off the continent, and they now have a single island, garrisoned by a force that costs more to maintain than the island produces. When I did that, I realized that as long as they exist there, they aren't likely to re-spawn suddenly and be a problem. They have no navy, and don't even have a shipbuilder. That's when I realized that wiping out a faction might not be the best idea, if they can be pushed into a corner and pinned by a small force.

I've just done the same to Novgorod, and I'm planning a major war against Sicily starting in about 5 years that will pin them similarly on their home island. I can probably do the same easily to Denmark and England when the time comes.

Anyone got any information to confirm this idea, or should I just wipe 'em out?

[Demon of Light]

It is a good idea. I've seen it posted on before but I don't know where. Could someone hunt that down?

[The_Emperor]

Faction re-emergence is more likely to happen when a rebellion occurs. Often the rebels join up with the elite army that the emerging faction has.

I really hate this aspect of the single player campaign because you always have to corner the defeated leader in one province and continually raid it (make sure he has a fort or castle) to keep him weak, and then leave a massive army nearby to make sure he doesn't cause you any further problems (Diverting valuble troops from other fronts).

Personally I like to wipe some factions out totally (the French are always on the hitlist, sorry French guys) so that I can use their old territories as my primary power base.
Factions like that I am always nervous about, but I do make allowances for a re-emergence and keep a couple of large armies within striking range of one year (even if I have to use naval power to do it).

Some out of the way rulers like the Danes are easy to keep weak, but its not quite as easy with some of the other mainland factions. As you say a good scenario is to corner them on an island somewhere with no navy... that way they you can finish them off at your pleasure when final victory is close.

Be flexible and you will succeed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[BDC]

I just crush them and hope for the best. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Goatus Maximus]

Yeah, definitely the best way to stem reemergence is to keep the loyalty in the territories high. I usually like to decapitate a faction, but leave 2-3 of their low income coastal provinces in a state of revolt. When the faction reemerges, you are no longer at war with them, so you can get an instant boost to the coffers with trade. I've rarely seen a weakened faction that reemerges on the coast go on the offensive immediately.

[SmokWawelski]

I guess that it depends on local situation, sometimes I keep the fractions alive just to have them as a player on the political arena (and strategy map as a buffer), but I was sometimes just keeping them alive so not to worry about their lost heirs.

The bummer is when somebody else finishes them off and they reapear on your territory...

To sum it all up: it works so why not use it?

[shand994]

Keep a spy in every province and you will rarely ever get any sort of rebellion or faction reemergenc, or so i have found.

[Brutal DLX]

Indeed, that has been discussed here before, one could probably look for it in the archives. In this context, it might be noteworthy that factions only respawn when their kings or any of their royal bloodline had underaged offspring at the time they were wiped out. Thus, if the faction didn't respawn after, say 60 years, it's safe to assume all their royal line has died out.

[KukriKhan]

When playing as a catholic faction, I've found it useful to quarter the Egyptians in Arabia, the Byz on Rhodes, the Almo's in Cyrenicia & Turks in Georgia (not all at the same time, of course). I fight them until they're in those provinces & down to less than 100 troops, and 0% agriculture/trade/ships. This also keeps other former crusader factions from re-emerging on that land (until rebels pop up anyway). Good mid-game (until @ 1350) strategy, while I reinforce my income & military for the end-game of map domination (when nobody loves you).

During this time, I also treat rebel provinces to benign neglect, since they rarely attack, and I can pick them off one-by-one when I'm ready. Makes for a longer game, with wins in the 1420's & 30's, and my treasury rapidly approaching 0 (my own personal sub-goal is to end with the 10K florin I started with, plus ownership of the map) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[starkhorn]

My method is to wipe them out and then ensure that none of your provinces have loyalty below 120. It's been my experience that faction re-appearing rebellions only occur in provinces that are below 120.

However, if I get a faction to an useless island like Rhodes or Crete then I simply leave them alone, make peace and get income from trading. If the faction is on the mainland then I wipe them out and keep the loyalty above 120.

Cheers
Starkhorn