Pick your generals

[Demon of Light]

Imagine for a moment that the greatest (and not as great) military minds the world has ever kown are arrayed before you. You are gathering a huge warhost and need capable leaders at the head of your armies. They are all there so you can pick whoever you like.

Rules:

Can't pick more than one at a time.

Can't make consecutive selections (you have to wait until someone else goes before you can go again.)

Can't pick a person if someone else has already picked them.

You have to pick real people.

[Demon of Light]

I choose Sun Tzu.

His understanding of the concept of war itself together with his grasp of the exemplary manner in which it should be prosecuted makes him an asset without peer.

[Monk]

i choose Alexander the Great,

defeated Athens and thebes along with a few babarian tribes to the north, afterwards he went on to defeat the persian empire. i think that makes him ok in my book

[Popeye]

General Electric.

Shock troops...

[Demon of Light]

Charles Martel

Checked the expansion of the Muslims in 732. Kicked the snot out of them so badly he earned the Hammer as an epithet. He also quelled innumerable revolts with high effectiveness.

[Monk]

Spartan King Leonidas,

Defended Thermopylae against a huge persian army with his force of 300 bodyguards and around 7,000 allied troops. However they became encircled when a traitor showed the persians another way through the mountains, Leonidas told the allies to leave and the 300 partans were left alone to fight. 4 times the Persian army advanced on their position but were repulsed finaly the Spartans becam overwhealmed and were defeated. Leonidas along with his 300 bodyguards were dead. Herodotus would later recall this final stand: They fought with their swords, if they had them, but if not, with their hands and teeth.

The place remains, however, best known for the earlier clash of arms. Following the defeat of Leonidas the Spartan, the Greeks built a monument to mark the spot where the heroes died. Upon it were carved no lofty words of praise, no boasts or laments, but one simple, concise verse:-

Oh stranger tell the Lacedaemonians, that we lie here,
obedient to their laws.

Although he could not hold the pass, he did not retreat. and Xerxes lost many thousands of men at the battle, including 2 brothers.

[Goatus Maximus]

After Alexander the Great, who is there? Best of all his attributes was his logistical aptitude, which is unparalleled. Its one thing to be a genius on the battlefield or command a well-trained army...its another thing to setup, maintain, and strengthen your supply line thousands of miles from home.

OK, he's already taken...

How about Julius Caesar? Master statesman, tactically sound, siegecraft genius.

[Brother Derfel]

John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough

Never lost a battle (well his military ones, politicaly he was defeated too early)

[chilling]

Homer Simpson.


Doh

[hooah]

Quote[/b] (Demon of Light @ April 28 2003,12:19)]I choose Sun Tzu.

His understanding of the concept of war itself together with his grasp of the exemplary manner in which it should be prosecuted makes him an asset without peer.
Excuse me? I get the gist of what you're trying to say but if you're going to try and sound clever at least make some sense http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Demon of Light]

Casca is getting credit for this. We're too lazy to log Demon of Light out and log Casca in...

Hannibal

Master of improvisation, organization, inspiration and tactics. Almost single-handedly brought Rome to its knees and in one battle inflicted an estimated 80000 KIA on a Roman army.

[Demon of Light]

Quote[/b] (hooah @ April 28 2003,16:17)]
Quote[/b] (Demon of Light @ April 28 2003,12:19)]I choose Sun Tzu.

His understanding of the concept of war itself together with his grasp of the exemplary manner in which it should be prosecuted makes him an asset without peer.
Excuse me? I get the gist of what you're trying to say but if you're going to try and sound clever at least make some sense http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
That sentence is properly constructed. I will cede you part of the point though. I could have been clearer.

[newey1815]

With the Napoleonic Mod etc going a-pace elsewhere, I'm amazed no one has chosen Napoleon yet. I realise his powers waned towards the end of his career when he let political considerations get the better of military ones (eg Waterloo when he should have retreated into France when he realised the Prussians were arriving), but as a general he really is peerless. Remember his 1796 Campaign? And Ulm, Austerlitz etc? Friedland? All examples of a master of war at work. Plus he has the backing of Wellington (Duke of, not regular forum member http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) in the 'best campaign' category for his efforts in 1814.

[Surprise]

Attila the Hun
I will own youz with Attila the thrilla http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[hooah]

ok i'm shit-stirring, feel free to tell me to stop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

an asset without peer - an 'asset' cannot have a peer, being such a non-specific word - a general or man can have a peer however

And exemplary is in the wrong place, as it is it sounds clumsy. As for 'prosecuted'? What, surely you mean executed ala together with his exemplary grasp of the manner in which it should be executed?

[hooah]

oh as for a general, Robert the Bruce was fairly good at using what he had (and he didn't have much compared to the english).

[ProfDanelaw]

Even though he might not truly qualify as a general, my first choice would be Pope Innocent III. He was the first pope to truly push the envelope of papal power in the form of crusades, excommunications, and general dominion over Catholic kingdoms. As if that wasn't enough, who generates more religious support than the pope? His presence would stir the support of almost every Catholic able to wield a sword to do his military bidding.

[Goatus Maximus]

OK, next up is Frederick the Great...master of drill and maneuver, with an outstanding understanding and use of combined arms.

[ProfDanelaw]

I don't suppose I have to wait for everyone else to go again, so I'll interject here and make another selection. In keeping with my theme of religious influence, I'd entrust my forces to King Saladin of the Saracens, as pious and chivalric as any man in history. Saladin inspired his Islamic brethren through his heartfelt love for the peoples of the Middle East and his foremost desire for peace. Though many would assume such a cosmopolite to be a poor commander, Saladin successfully led the Muslim forces that drove a large percentage of the Crusaders out of Islamic lands.

[LeeJackson]

Patton. Nuff said.

[KukriKhan]

Theodore Roosevelt. Sheer charisma, and an uncanny ability to surround himself with the most able strategic and tactical minds available, rank-be-damned.

Not bad for an asthmatic, near-sighted bookworm city-boy, turned environmentalist, general, and president. Guy had cajones of titanium.

Next. (Good proposition DoL).

[KukriKhan]

Quote[/b] (hooah @ April 28 2003,16:29)]oh as for a general, Robert the Bruce was fairly good at using what he had (and he didn't have much compared to the english).
Surprise I thought our honorable hooah was going to pick Joseph Addison(1672-1719), the persnickity poet and essayist, as his champion. That able wordsmith could have instructed us all in the finer points of 'prosecute' versus 'execute', not to mention a critique of our lackadaisical capitalization and punctuation habits. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[LeeJackson]

I am going to pick one more before I go to bed.

Longstreet
- an underated general IMO.

[kataphraktoi]

Belisarius

Extremely Loyal general

Innovative tactics military and non-military

Flexible military mind

Jus like Sun Tzu he adjusts accordingly to the situation.

[Goatus Maximus]

Just for sheer terror and disrupting the enemy's supply line...

Nathan Bedford Forrest

[Kongamato]

Subedei Bahadur.

I dont know whether the system made him or whether he made the system, but I must pick him first.

[Surprise]

Quote[/b] (LeeJackson @ April 28 2003,21:10)]Patton. Nuff said.
PATTON??

Attila will eat Patton alive while he screams like girl http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Demon of Light]

Flavius Aetius

Last great Roman general. Killed by Emperor Valentinian, who feared Aetius wanted the throne. His death sealed Rome's fate and was the harbinger the Dark Ages.

He mopped the floor with Attila the Hun in battle.

[Mak]

Rommel
Okay the guy was on the losing side, but boy did he wop some arse.

[newey1815]

In keeping with my Napoleonic theme, Marshal Louis Davout. The Iron Marshal was undefeated as a general, barring his 'surrender' of Hamburg although even that was more than a month after Napoleon's fall and after receiving a direct order from Louis XVIII. Auerstadt was a piece of genius, and if only he'd been commanding the left or right wing in the Waterloo campaign rather than being Minister of War...

[Casca]

I'll happily mathch Nathan Bedford Forrest with Basil II The Bulgar Slayer and see who terrorises who. My man doesn't believe in taking prisoners, he just blinds them all and sends them home http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Brutal DLX]

Funny to see people talking about persons long gone as if they knew them by heart.

[Knight_Yellow]

Sir winston Churchill.

obvious reasons.

[Goatus Maximus]

Quote[/b] (Brutal DLX @ April 29 2003,02:29)]Funny to see people talking about persons long gone as if they knew them by heart.
Ah, but 'twas just yesterday when me, Nathan Bedford Forrest, the Duke of Wellington (Dukey in these circles), and Shaka Zulu were playing Old Maid...ha ha ha, what good times Except when Shaka got the Old Maid...oh, ol' Nathan didn't like that one bit...he took out his white sheet and put quite a fright in the Shakster.

[Demon of Light]

Herman Hoth

Performed miracles for the Germans on the Russian front.

[Goatus Maximus]

Alright, coordinating the whole thing, I'll take George Marshall. That just leaves one more til I've got my lineup set...

[Surprise]

Albert Einstein...

Nuff said.

[A.Saturnus]

I would say it depends on what situation you are in.

Well, I take Bill Gates, unfairness rules http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Doge Enrico II]

Henry V because he was the only English King actually able of securing the French crown for the English monarchy.

[LeeJackson]

Genghis Khan
oh ya

[Demon of Light]

Erich von Manstein

Another German on the Russian front. This one actually had a miracle named after him (Manstein's miracle).

[hooah]

Quote[/b] (KukriKhan @ April 28 2003,22:48)]Surprise I thought our honorable hooah was going to pick Joseph Addison(1672-1719), the persnickity poet and essayist, as his champion. That able wordsmith could have instructed us all in the finer points of 'prosecute' versus 'execute', not to mention a critique of our lackadaisical capitalization and punctuation habits. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ahahaha good one khan http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I wasn't being that finnicky, I just thought it was really good to see someone trying to sound all knowledgeable and literate and then falling flat on his arse. By the way demon of light, if english isn't your first language, then I applaud you and take this as 'constructive' criticism so you know how to use these words/phrases in the future. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Popeye]

Quote[/b] (Mak @ April 29 2003,02:04)]Rommel
Okay the guy was on the losing side, but boy did he wop some arse.
Saying Rommel kicked butt is something of an understatement.

As a Lieutenant during WWI, he basically invented the Forward Observer, by making two identical maps with grid lines and target reference points, and connecting the observer by field telephone to the firing battery.

He also wrote the first book on tactical use of armor, which is where Patton learned much of what he used to win his own battles.

To simply say that Rommel kicked butt is like saying Beethoven played the piano.

[Demon of Light]

Hooah: Enough already. I meant to put exemplary exactly in the spot in which it is located ( Sun Tzu wrote about how to prosecute exemplary wars) and wars can be prosecuted. The traditional understanding of the word prosecution is such that it does not lend itself to being used in this manner but I assure you that I am certain I am correct in the usage.

Further, even if my sentence were badly constructed, you wouldn't have sufficient reason to assume or imply that English is my second language. I realize you only stated that as a possibility but I would think my vocabulary alone is enough to discount that.

Also worth noting is that people can both be assets AND be peerless.

Allow me to assure you that my proverbial arse has not hit the floor and that my sentence is properly constructed. If you disagree, start a new topic called Grammer. Do not respond in this topic.

[Mak]

Thanks for the applause on my nomination http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Popeye.
Perhaps we could turn this into a vote fopr peoples favorite?

Hoah or whatever can we stop the vocab and grammar lessons you seem to bore people like the an English Teacher this is supposed to be a fun discussion on the merits of Generals of the past, not schooling. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[pyhhricvictory]

ROBERT E LEE

Nate Forrest wishes he had the leadership skills and tactical brilliance to take a bunch of farmers and backwoods hicks and turn them into the greatest army in US History. During his tenure, the Union Army of the Potomac went through 5 or 6 commanders in trying to find someone to beat him. He surrendered only after the push from Atlanta by Sherman and Sheridan and a direct push by Grant. It took three of the best generals of the time to beat him. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Demon of Light]

Michel Ney

Arguably the bravest of Napoleon's marshals. He was an inspiration to his troops and sometimes ensured victory by sheer force of will (or so it seemed).

[Popeye]

Not only did it take 3 Union Generals to beat Lee, don't forget that the Union Army outnumbered Lee 3 to 1 at the opening of the War, and that numerical superiority just increased over time. Part of that was because the Union had a greater ability to manufacture firearms.

Of course, the Union suffered under a major disadvantage throughout most of the war that the Confederacy never had to deal with. The Union had Washington DC helping them run the war.

One last word on Lee...I once heard that he was and still is the ONLY person to ever graduate West Point without ever receiving a single demerit. Anyone able to confirm this detail?

[Shahed]

Starting with the MTW theme:

Saladin as he was known to his Christian enemies, or more correctly Salah ud-Din, born 1138 died 1193, was the greatest Muslim general and leader of the Crusade period. He and his armies put an end to Christian supremacy in the Holy Land. He was of Armenian Kurdish origin and rose to the rank of Vizier before becoming the first Ayubid sultan of Egypt. He re-united several groups of dissident Muslim sects and then set about the recapture of Syria and most of Palestine from the Christians. A generous and chivalrous man, even the Christians, admired him for his considerate treatment of prisoners, his encouragement of East-West trade, and his brilliance as a general.

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] ]I just thought it was really good to see someone trying to sound all knowledgeable and literate and then falling flat on his arse.

Speaking of falling flat on his arse, may I help you to your feet hooah? So nice of you to take it upon yourself to correct another patron's grammer/word usage and then admit to everyone you enjoyed (it was really good) making fun of that patron's word usage. I think everyone understood what DoL was saying and few, if any, appreciated your contributions to this topic until you picked Robert the Bruce. So please, no more stirring. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Our patrons come from a wide range of ages, backgrounds, languages and communications skills so you'd better get used to horrible vocabularies and awful grammer (mostly from us Americans http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ). Everyone here is doing their best to communicate clearly with others. Accept it and move on. I know you can do it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

To end this on a positive note, when Grammar Total War and its expansion pack Vocabulary Invasion come out, we already know who the expert will be. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif j/k hooah.

[Gregoshi]

Oh, one more point to everyone. This topic appears at times to be heading in the my general can beat up your general direction. Let's not go there. It's been done before and wasn't very pretty. Just pick your general and give some reasons for your choice if you want to.


I'll go with Heinz Guderian. The man who made Germany's armour divisions what they were. And he also knew how to use them. Hmmmm, I've this sudden urge to re-read his autobiography, Panzer Leader.

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] (Popeye @ April 29 2003,10:40)]One last word on Lee...I once heard that he was and still is the ONLY person to ever graduate West Point without ever receiving a single demerit. Anyone able to confirm this detail?
You are correct Popeye. The man was amazing.

[Demon of Light]

Andre Massena

An excellent general and merchant. I would have loved to have this guy in MTW.

(I'm grabbing as many of Napoleon's marshal's as I can now. don't worry though. I'll leave Grouchy around if anyone wants him. And maybe Augereau too.)

[PrithviRaj Chauhan]

I choose Chanakya. Indian Military and Political Strategist for the Maurya kings . Responsible for unifying India under Chandragupta Maurya.

[Goatus Maximus]

Quote[/b] (pyhhricvictory @ April 29 2003,10:25)]ROBERT E LEE

Nate Forrest wishes he had the leadership skills and tactical brilliance to take a bunch of farmers and backwoods hicks and turn them into the greatest army in US History. During his tenure, the Union Army of the Potomac went through 5 or 6 commanders in trying to find someone to beat him. He surrendered only after the push from Atlanta by Sherman and Sheridan and a direct push by Grant. It took three of the best generals of the time to beat him. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Re: Robert E. Lee

Yes, its classic to argue Robert E. Lee's masterful campaign in the Lost Cause elevates him to elite status among generals, for it was only a matter of time before the Union's huge material advantages crushed the south. And he certainly enjoyed the loyalty of his troops. But he is most likely the luckiest general in history:

*When Lee took over, he faced McClellan, Pope, McClellan, Burnside, Hooker, Meade, and finally Grant. Apart from Meade, perhaps, the others were horrible commanders of entire armies. Lets recount:
- McClellan's ineffectual spy ring told him that the south actually outnumbered him, and he refused to go to action. When Secret Order 192 was discovered outlining Lee's invasion of the North, he had the tool to destroy Lee's vastly outnumbered army...yet at Antietam he waited too long, didn't commit his reserves in a timely manner, and allowed Lee to escape. In the hands of an average field commander, the war was over on the banks of the Potomac.
- Pope: Here's a guy, who upon taking over in the East, issues a proclamation to his troops that they aren't as good as their counterparts in the West. Inspiring, eh? He rightly attempted to destory Jackson's isolated wing with his Army, but failed to use cavalry to detect Longstreet coming up on his flank. As the sides were numerically even, the result was not in doubt. You could argue that Lee got caught with his pants down, and were it not for Jackson's heroic stand, the south would have lost this battle too.
- Burnside: Are you kidding me? This might be the guy that lost McClellan the battle of Antietam. Clearly not a leader, he failed to attack Fredericksburg with 115,000 men when it was defended by just a few thousand. Harrangued by ineffectual supply to get pontoon bridges, his attack was delayed until well after Lee's 80,000 men were entrenched behind Marye's heights. Lacking imagination and the will to not attack, Burnside plodded across the river and up the slopes...can you say slaughter?
- Hooker: Fighting Joe seemed to be the man, and his creativity devised a great plan to root Lee out of Fredericksburg. However, a poor decision to send his cavalry out meant that he had no reconnaisance to detect Lee's movement, and subsequently Jackson's. Lee's double splitting of his forces certainly caught Hooker off guard, but over the course of the next 3 days, Hooker failed to engage with over HALF of his army...~60,000 men As Hooker himself said, I lost faith in Joe Hooker. With the slightest bit of field intelligence, Lee would have been annihilated had he chosen to stay and fight.
- Meade: Meade was the first Union general facing Lee that was not awed by the myth of Bobby Lee. His reaction and movements at Gettysburg were perfect counters to Lee's movements, and for the first time the Union had better field intelligence. Result: Bobby Lee lost. Pickett's charge will forever go down as one of Lee's worst moves, almost as bad as Burnside's attack at Fredericksburg.

In all of the cases above, it was Union incompetence more than anything else that contributed to Lee's victories. When Grant took over, he reorganized the Army of the Potomac and focussed on three things:

1) Maintain contact with Lee at ALL times
2) Strengthen supply line
3) Better utilization of cavalry to support main army

Basic things

I don't mean for Lee to sound like a bumbling idiot...he was certainly a great general. But that was because he had a concept of generalship was (as did Grant and several other commanders in the war), and the jokers he went up against until Gettysburg had no clue. And he happened to have some of the best lieutenants in the game...Stonewall, Longstreet, AP Hill...just superb Corps commanders.

[Goatus Maximus]

Alright, in another spirit, the Goatus Maximus Goat Herders select a kid that has some real upside. Word has it that this guy walks on water, turns water into wine, and can raise the dead. With the fifth round pick, out of the University of Nazarath, the Goat Herders select...Jesus Christ

Commentator: Surprise pick. Nobody had Jesus on their draft board. We'll see if Jesus will actually imbibe the Goat Herders with the mystical powers that will render their Army invincible.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Richard the Lionheart

He acted upon a promise to his father to join the Third Crusade and departed for the Holy Land in 1190 (accompanied by his partner-rival Philip II of France). In 1191, he conquered Cyprus en route to Jerusalem and performed admirably against Saladin, nearly taking the holy city twice. Philip II, in the meantime, returned to France and schemed with Richard's brother John. The Crusade failed in its primary objective of liberating the Holy Land from Moslem Turks, but did have a positive result - easier access to the region for Christian pilgrims through a truce with Saladin. Richard received word of John's treachery and decided to return home; he was captured by Leopold V of Austria and imprisoned by Holy Roman Emperor Henry VI. The administrative machinery of Henry II insured the continuance of royal authority, as Richard was unable to return to his realm until 1194. Upon his return, he crushed a coup attempt by John and regained lands lost to Philip II during the German captivity. Richard's war with Philip continued sporadically until the French were finally defeated near Gisors in 1198.

[Dîn-Heru]

Harald the Fairhaired I of Norway

United Norway in the 9th century through military conquest. Is primerly remembered for the battle of Hafsfjord in 872 (i think).

[Gregoshi]

If you want to debate the skill of various generals, please start another topic to give it the attention it deserves. Let's keep this topic confined to the Draft of the Generals.

I'll take George B. McClellan. The man could train and prepare an army for battle like few others. However, Little Mac will never hear the sound of gun fire if I can help it. That is what I have Guderian for. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[LeeJackson]

In the spirt of Gregoshi's last post I will take
Picket
because every army needs soem one who will follow the stuidest of orders blindly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Kongamato]

Quintus Fabius Maximus.

[Surprise]

Salah-al Din

(i think thats right)

Sultan Saladin

[Rageagainst20]

Oliver Cromwell------devolped the theory of the new reform army and discorved well paid and better morale troops could bet a much larger force

[ShadesPanther]

Suleiman the Magnificent
Conquered Rhodes from the Knights Hospitallers,Conquered Budapest (1526), burned the city, and withdrew his troops
1529 he attacked Vienna but was turned back.
Took over control of N. Africa
1543 took over control of Hungary
Expanded east into Persia and south into Mesopotamia

Also gave the Ottoman Empire its Golden Age he also had a small ego (not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif )

I, who am Sultan of the Sultans of East and West, fortunate lord of the domains of the Romans, Persians, and Arabs, Hero of creation, Neriman of the earth and time, Padishah and Sultan of the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, of the extolled Kaab a and Medina the illustrious and Jerusalem of the noble, of the throne of Egypt and the province of Yemen, Aden, and San'a, of Baghdad and Basra and Lhasa and Ctesiphon, of the lands of Algiers and Azerbaijan, of the region of the Kipshaks and the lands o f the Tartars, of Kurdistan and Luristan and all Rumelia, Anatolia and Karaman, of Wallachia and Moldavia and Hungary and many kingdoms and lands besides; the Sultan Suleyman Khan, son of the Sultan Selim Khan


basically he was saying
ph34r meh i pwn j00 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[ProfDanelaw]

Two other users have drafted King Saladin besides me. Refer to the first page and you'll see that he's already been drafted (by me). Pick someone else.

[Demon of Light]

Phillip of Macedon

Although outshined by his son, there is no telling how far he would have gone if he had not died prematurely.

[newey1815]

DoL, you're welcome to Ney and Massena, as long as I can add Suchet to my list alongside the earlier Napoleon and Davout.

This was, after all, the only Marshal to come out of Spain with his reputation not only intact but shining bright. Mind, he didn't face Wellington, but he can add a tidy performance in the West in 1815 to his list of achievements.

[Kongamato]

Shibata Katsuie.

[hooah]

I don't believe I fell flat on my arse. And btw
are you sure that something wasn't confused in the translation if you read about sun tzu 'prosecuting' wars?

no, bad war, don't be so violent be more peaceful you bad bad war $200 fine

it's all constructive, honest http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif and the second language thing was more of a joke than me being serious

alright I'll scarper now

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[A Nerd]

Scipio

[DemonArchangel]

Shi Huangdi

[Casca]

It is true that there are plenty of very good generals out there to choose from. Sometimes however, I wonder how far some of them would have gone if they had not had able and talented lieutenants to carry out their commands. And so to follow allong this thread I will nominate Michael Wittmann who is credited with having stoped an entire British Armored Division with about four tanks and is argued to be one of the best tank commanders in history.

[Goatus Maximus]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ April 29 2003,12:45)]If you want to debate the skill of various generals, please start another topic to give it the attention it deserves. Let's keep this topic confined to the Draft of the Generals.

I'll take George B. McClellan. The man could train and prepare an army for battle like few others. However, Little Mac will never hear the sound of gun fire if I can help it. That is what I have Guderian for. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Sorry bout that, Gregoshi...I was in the midst of typing while you posted your original response. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[KukriKhan]

Ho Chi Minh; master of attrition, and the lo-o-ong view to victory.

Oh...prosecute:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?prosecute
legal action is the third definition; pusuing war relentlessly is #1.

[Goatus Maximus]

Alright, I'm happy with the five I have now, now its time to focus on the second team.

Genghis Khan. Talk about blitzkrieg, mama

[LeeJackson]

sorry Goatus Maximus but i already took Genghis (see page 2)
mayeb we should all put how are past ciks were along with our current pick.

current pick Stone Wall Jackson

Past Picks- Patton, Longstreet, Genghis Khan, and Picket

[Demon of Light]

Charlamagne

Harbinger of the end of the Dark Ages in Europe.

[Casca]

Following on my earlier thread I choose Erich Hartmann the number one fighter ace of all time with 352 confirmed victories. (unfortunately the Russians didn't like getting their arse handed to them so many times and he consequently spent ten years in a Soviet post war prison camp)

[Kongamato]

Norman Schwarzkopf.

My current list:

Subedei Bahadur Genghis Khan's 'Dog of War'
Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator
Shibata Katsuie Jar-Breaker
Norman Schwarzkopf Stormin' Norman

That's cool, they all have nicknames. However, that did not enter into my selection process.

[Demon of Light]

Louis-Alexandre Berthier

Napoleon's Chief of Staff. Superb administrative abilities and a superior understanding of terrain makes him the best staff officer available.

[Casca]

Recognizing the need for a superb Chief of Staff to handle logistics and organization I will choose Carl Maria von Clausewitz. Not only an able and capable Chief of Straff during the Napoleonic Wars, but also the author Vom Kriege (On War) and one of the most profound military theorists of all time.

[Divine Wind]

Horatio Nelson

Defended our seas against an overwhelming enemy force. Led from the front always and payed the ultimate sacrifice any soldier risks in battle. A legend.

[Asmodeus]

indeed Nelson was a true hero

Also I admire Heinz Guderian and Eric Von Manstein as Germany's most capable generals on the WWII Eastern Front.

[Shahed]

Quote[/b] (DEATHby_Surprise @ April 29 2003,20:21)]Salah-al Din

(i think thats right)

Sultan Saladin
Already taken.

[Shahed]

Date Masamune (http://www.samurai-archives.com/masamune.html)

[Shahed]

As my first choice is invalid, see page 2.
I take the liberty of making a second choice:

Uesugi Kenshin (http://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html)
http://www.samurai-archives.com/image/bi.jpg

[Pad75]

Bertrand du Gesclin.
He was the only non-king who is burried in Saint-Denis (where french king are burried).

[Gregoshi]

Greetings Pad75 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Welcome to the General Admission thread. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Gesclin must have done some pretty good stuff to be buried with kings. I have to admit I'm not familiar with the name. Can you enlighten me a little on his accomplishments - or provide link to a web site that does? Thanks.

[Cheetah]

Ulysses Grant

[Goatus Maximus]

Alrighty then...my first team consists of:

Julius Caesar, Frederick the Great, Nathan Bedford Forrest, George Marshall, and Jesus Christ

Since Genghis is taken already, I'll just settle for Timur the Lame...

[Cheetah]

Tokugawa Ieyasu

[Blackball]

Alexander Nevskii.

[Cheetah]

Toyotomi Hideyosi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Lord Godfrey]

I don’t visit the org for a day or two and look what I miss – Draft Day. Since I am a little behind I am going to give myself five picks in a row. I apologize to anyone who takes offense and will gladly yield a choice or two if someone objects, but just remember most of the good ones have been taken.

General Dwight Eisenhower for Coalition Building: We all know allies are great, as long as they do exactly what you tell them to do. Eisenhower kept ego-maniacs like Montgomery and Patton fighting on the same team, and played the “politics of war” well.

General Douglas MacArthur for Strategic Planning: Since Julius Caesar was already selected; I’ll take the American Caesar. Although he got caught with his pants down in the Philippines at the beginning of WW2, he came back strong with the island hopping strategy in the Pacific and the Inchon landings during the Korean War. Forgot about the “politics of war” aspect, but maybe the “best clerk” he ever had can keep him in line.

Edward the Black Prince for Tactical Planning: Got to love a guy who can tear around the French countryside during the Hundred Years War and led the English army at Crecy and Poiters

John Paul Jones for the Commander of Naval Forces: Took the America Revolution to British shores. Replied “I have not yet begun to fight” after the captain of the more heavily gunned British warship Serapis raked his ship the Bonhomme Richard. With his ship sinking beneath his feet, Jones boarded and captured the Serapis.

General William Pagonis for Logistics: Since amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics, the logistician behind the First Gulf War.

[Cheetah]

Nice post Lord Godfrey. I am not angry with you since you left out my next choice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Oda Nobugana http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif hm, I really dont know whether they liked each other or not, but definitely it looks a cool set-up: Tokugawa Ieyasu, Toyotomi Hideyosi and Oda Nobugana http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Muhawawaaaaaa Shogun Totalwar

and dont forget Ulysses Grant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[noramis]

Maximus

[Demon of Light]

Pancho Villa

Several nations were known to have studied his method of guerilla warfare. He kept General Pershing running up and down the desert chasing him. Pershing never caught him.

[Cheetah]

Sherman, I guess Grant would pick him http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Casca]

Adolf Galland to command and coordinate the fighter forces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Demon of Light]

Duke of Wellington

He's been mentioned alot but I don't think anyone has actually picked him yet.

[Shahed]

Ernesto Che Guevara

It is better to die standing than to live on your knees.

[Kongamato]

T.E. Lawrence.

[Cheetah]

Sheridan

[Goatus Maximus]

von Moltke.

[Div Hunter]

Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov

http://www.cossackweb.com/ww2/zhukov.htm