Best Archers

[Panther]

What is your Fav archer unit?

Personally mine is Then Trebizond archer as they are fast, Cheap, have good range and with 3 valour and weapon pgrade 1 they can fight very well ( surprised alot of opponets with that).

IMHO i dont think pav arbs are good They are slow, cost a good bit and are VERY slow at reloading so they cant match normal archers for ROF even tho the shield absorbs lots of arrows they just arent worth the money

[Kraxis]

Turcoman Foot, they are truly fast (Trebz are not), have good armour, shields and a loose formation. Besides that they will survive quite a lot as they have good defensive stats.
They are the born survivors.

After them we have the Trebz. Strong attackers, fairly cheap, good Morale and Disciplined. One can always expect them to put up a good fight.

[Tera]

I find Nizaris to be very good in Early games. They shoot well, relatively cheap armour upgrade, excellent morale, superb attack - and they are quite fast too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Lechev]

Gee...i never use any of the units you guys mention except arb pav. I'll try out these units this weekend.

[Crandaeolon]

I'm making a valiant effort not to chime in... a couple of ya are teetering on the kneecap-breaking threshold... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

- Cran the Archery Maniac

"We demand inequality for archers" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

(Look at the "Early archers..." and "Turk Units" threads for more info)

[LRossaLordJimi]

Agree with Tera,Nizari are best http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Except when your opponent have Pavise Arba http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Ave

[Crandaeolon]

Awww... gah. Couldn't resist. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Here's the ranged attack stats for most foot archer units:

Archers:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Trebizond Archers:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Desert Archers:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Genoese SailorsRange 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Turcoman Foot:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Janissary Archers:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Futuwwa:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Bulgarian Brigands:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Nizari:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Hashishin:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.
Janissary Infantry:Range 5000, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1, AP 1.

Anything strange in that picture? They all also have a reload speed of 4, but I bet ya get the point... (for the n:th time...;))

By comparison Longbows have a Range of 5625, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1 and an AP modifier of 0.5 (ie. halves the effectiveness of armour.)

Crossbows have a Range of 5000, Accuracy 0.7, Lethality 1, Power 2, AP mod 0.4, Reload speed 15.

Arbalests have a Range of 6000, Accuracy 0.75, Lethality 1.25, Power 3, AP mod 0.3, Reload speed 15.

[Kalle]

Ah another archer subject http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Well personally i also rank the trebizonds as best archerbuy.

According to cran all archers have equal stats regarding shooting (except longbows) and i believe he is correct but prices vary as do their other factors.

The trebs are as pointed out earlier a really good melee force with high morale and attackfactors, they lack some defence though but a good commander can make up for that against most opposition.

Point is you cant just look att range and those special archerskills, you must look at all the skills and stats of the unit and the cost.

Other then the trebs i reallly like the turks. Imagine having 4 janissary archers and 4 janissary inf raining arrows on an approaching enemy and then when they are close rush in with hji and flank with the jan inf. LOL normally doesnt happen though because of the darn pavise.

For instance we could compare bulgarian brigands costing 300 i think and trebz who are cheaper. The trebz when permitted to cost same amount of money would never loose a fight against the brigands if handled correctly instead they would soundly rout them off the table.

Kalle

[Panther]

I know it seems strange and may be an isolated inciddent but The enemy's Trebs were firing at my Jinf but my Jinf couldn't fire back.
I think that Trebs maybe have a longer range than 5000 but then it might just be a coincidence

[Puzz3D]

Panther,

The enemy archer may have had a height advantage. Height gives archers more range and accuracy.

The discount on upgrades of ranged units is a stop gap measure to compensate for the fact that accuracy doesn't increase much with upgrades. Some of the ranged units become very strong in hand-to-hand ability given enough upgrades. These discounts create a constantly shifting hand-to-hand balance between ranged units and regular infantry/cavalry as you increase florins. It's most pronounced in the hangunners which become a super hand-to-hand unit at v4w1.

[Kongamato]

As long as we are speaking of archery, can anyone explain why badly deployed archers that get bunched up with each other start to automatically advance, halt, and attempt to fire repetitively?

[Panther]

That happens to me if i have modded projectilestats
I think its that it is in range but there is not enough velocity

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Crandaeolon @ Mar. 18 2003,04:14)]By comparison Longbows have a Range of 5625, Accuracy 0.6, Lethality 0.63, Power 1 and an AP modifier of 0.5 (ie. halves the effectiveness of armour.)
Yes, this really buggers me. The range given to the Longbows is 6000 but the speed of the arrows is not enough to cover this. The maximum range of archers is Velocity^2 / 4, thus the Longbows will look like this 150^2 / 4 = 5625... Not enough to actually cover the distance, and this is why you will see them aim, then walk to aim again for a while. Quite irritating, but only in true games as I have modded my games.

But really Crand, some archers are better than others, not in ranged perhaps, certainly not enough to warrent their different costs, but some of them simply perform great as archers in ability to absorb enemy ranged fire and perhaps fighting back in melee or having other good benefits (Morale, Disciplined).

[Cheetah]

Crand, you are correct http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif there is no difference between archers with respect of range, accuracy, etc. However, there are differences in price, morale, armour and hth fighting abilities. Both morale and armour can make the difference in an archer shoot-out. And, of course, good hth ability can be quite useful in the later stages of the battle. So, while they all should have the same killing power with respect of archery, it is still meaningful to ask which one is the best. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

BTW, my favourites are JI, janissary archers, futtuwa and nizari. And of course, longbowmen, but they have longbow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Cheetah]

Duh, Kraxis was faster than me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Stormer]

my favorite is the longbow there english and there great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[TheViking]

IMO the Trebz are best, when i play SP with the Byz i use them from early till the end, They always get good kills, at least 60, even with only V1, (I only train them in Trebizond)

[Puzz3D]

That bug in the speed stat of the longbow was pointed out to longjohn when he asked for input on MP balance for VI.

[Kraxis]

Do you mean Velocity or Reloadtime?

I think that pre-patch the Longbows reloaded only with 3 frames (as opposed to all the other at 4), it simply seemed to use up its arrows much faster than the other archers, certainly a good thing for MP. Now it is 4 just like all others.

[Aelwyn]

Personally I like the Nizari's the best. The Futuwwas seem to lose in a missle battle with them, as well as even desert archers. I like the Longbowmen as well, but almost never use them because they're in the same era's as arbs.

[ShadesWolf]

Longbows all the way....

As Tarrak(Kraxis) was saying we have modified the stats over at OOOO to give a more true/ realistic effect.

This we have tested on a number of battles - mainly the Agincourt map, and have had some good results.

For me it is these little problems which make or break the game. THEY SHOULD have been correct in the patch and for some reason were overlooked....

It makes it very hard to play multiplayer games as unless these stats are used by everybody, then you get version or stat problems.

I just wish more time had been taken in researching/ testing the units. This would have mnade the game a greater hit - IMHO

[Kalle]

Well Cheetah if you read carefully you will notice i was faster then both you and Kraxis with that point so it would have been enough for you to write agree witk Kalle the Swedish archeroracle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[tgi01]

Hmm Crand threatened Kalle into agreeing with him... how sad ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

tgi01

[Crandaeolon]

Quote[/b] ]Hmm Crand threatened Kalle into agreeing with him... how sad ...

I had to resort to joint-breaking measures after arguing about the same topic about 12842 times. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif There's _always_ some new twerp (no offense intended, of course http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif) who happily posts about Jan archers or Trebz or Turcos that have mowed down warriors like hay... that's all well and good, but one glance at the stats files and enough _objective_ testing should reveal that there are no theoretical (and in my experience, practical, though your mileage may vary... kneecaps in danger http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif) differences in firepower between archers.

I gripe about it because I don't like the developers' decision to abstract archery that much, and I also believe that archers, at least the "dedicated" archers, should be defined by their ranged combat ability, not their melee ability. They could easily have modeled another bow type (the composite bow widely used by Islamic and Asiatic peoples) with the redundant NINJ projectile type, and indeed some modders, myself included, have done this. It really buggered me when the description of Trebizond archers blabs something about increased range and firepower, while their missile ability is identical to standard archers.

It's really not that big of a deal of course, but some tangible differences would be nice and put my mind to rest. I know better than to start arguing about how good archers _actually_ were in battles... that's almost like the charging knight debate... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Sorry about the relatively harsh text for me, but archery is a subject that's close to my heart and tends to provoke emotions... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Aelwyn @ Mar. 18 2003,18:36)]Personally I like the Nizari's the best. The Futuwwas seem to lose in a missle battle with them, as well as even desert archers.
That is because the Futuwwas are in a formed formation while the Nizaris and Desert Archers are in a loose formation making them harder to kill.

[Aelwyn]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Mar. 19 2003,12:23)]That is because the Futuwwas are in a formed formation while the Nizaris and Desert Archers are in a loose formation making them harder to kill.
I agree. For some reason though, even with the Futuwwas in loose formation and Nizaris/desert archers in tight formation, the Fut. still seem to lose. And as Crand has said, there isn't too much difference between them anyways. Of course situational factors taken into account, I still like to keep Futuwwas out of a missle fight and will even only use them as melee units if I don't get a chance to use them as missle units without any resistance. Basically to me they're better off alive than dead when the h2h fighting starts, reguardless of the few they killed in the missle war.

[Kraxis]

I pretty much use the Futs are those ranged that actually softens up the enemy after or during the archeryduels. Let other units soak up the fire and let the Futs kill the expensive enemies.

[FasT]

Longbows http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[ErikJansen]

Janissary Archers Because they are kinda cool, lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and they DID reduce an unit of Gazi Inf to 15 men in short order less than an hour ago. Nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

(I'm not saying vanilla Archers wouldn't have done that I do value my kneecaps)