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Puzz3D
04-17-2003, 16:49
In the new Gamespot preview, the organ gun is described as an anti-personnel weapon that is "absolutely devastating", and available in early, late and high MTW eras. Sounds like something the MP game DOES NOT need.

Surprise
04-17-2003, 16:53
how can gunpowder be in early and high period?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Tera
04-17-2003, 17:02
Well, to a certain extent, thunder bombers were also devastating and so are naphta throwers, but they were never real issues...we'll see.

The Mizus will hopefully save us in the case of an imbalance anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Kongamato
04-17-2003, 17:02
Lets hope that in the MP game the Organ Gun will be totally ineffective without a very high valor, which had better make it extremely expensive. And all eras? That sounds just plain wrong. I hope the range of this thing is less than that of the arbalest.

I also shudder to think of how choppy and laggy the game will get when 6+ guns fire in sequence. Arty already makes the MP speed unplayable with a high number of guns.

However, none of this is going to stop some newbie from buying 16 of them thinking "Oh, joy Things that go boom". This just looks like a toy for SP people.

Shahed
04-17-2003, 17:05
In the video preview, the organ gun looks like it has the same effect as napthas. Up close a volley can send a whole unit 100 pike unit fleeing.

It would be a shame to jump to conclusions though, even before the game is released. Once the game is released I look forward to enjoying it as much as I can.

Shahed
04-17-2003, 17:09
It'll be a relief from 4 arb, 6 sword, 6 cav armies. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

That is certain.
Hopefully we'll see some new creativity in the armies.

Postino
04-17-2003, 18:47
if the gun is what i think it is, then it will only fire once.

tgi01
04-17-2003, 20:16
Well we dont even know if it will be in MP or just SP ...
and I will keep on with the No Artillery anyway ....


TGI

Stormer
04-17-2003, 20:21
Atchully in a preview i read on it is that its crap aginst enemy units (like all artillary) but its decreases moral more then any other artilly when it fires.

ElmarkOFear
04-17-2003, 21:44
Looks like my ban list is going to get a workout again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif The real problem with artillery is that the game does not take into account "line of sight". In a battle your men do not stand in front of the artillery and the artillery cannot fire into a group of units fighting hand to hand without inflicting more damage on its own units than the enemy. Sid Meier's gettysburg handled their arty "line of sight" very well. If you were not on a hill your arty would not fire if your men blocked its sight of an enemy unit. The same should be true for MTW. That would make the arty unable to fire once your men engaged the enemy units sent to protect it. As it is now, all you have to do is line up a few units of high val pikes/spears/chiv men at arms etc . . in front of a piece of arty and the arty will kill any units that go hand-to-hand with its protecting troops without killing the same or more of its own men. That is the problem with arty as it stands as well as its uncanny ability to kill general units from across the map.

longjohn2
04-17-2003, 22:59
I don't think the organ gun will be too much of a problem. It can be pretty devastating, but its range is only around 50-60 metres, and it takes a long time to reload.

I'm pretty sure it'll only be available in late too.

Puzz3D
04-18-2003, 01:21
Thanks for the clarification LongJohn. This sounds a lot more reasonable than the way the organ gun was described in the GameSpot preview. It makes sense that a gunpowder weapon would only be available in late era. This should leave the high era free to benefit from the unit adjustments you made without having a new and potentially very strong unit introduced to the era. Short range and long reload are also big limitations for a unit in MP, especially one that can't move.

LadyAnn
04-18-2003, 01:24
Sid Meiyer's "guns won't fire if men block gun" is ridiculous also. If men block guns, they should be blasted as well.

I think the problem with artillery in MTW is that the balls bounces too much. It treats all ground surface as hard bed rocks. That's wrong. Most cannon balls, especially the high-angle fired one would falls into the mud (battle fields are usually waged in ... the field, where the soil are for growing crops, or else the farmers would get quite angry) and wouldn't bounce that much. That's why not until Napoleonic time that cannons are used as anti-personnel device.

Annie

Annie

CBR
04-18-2003, 04:14
Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ April 18 2003,01:24)]That's why not until Napoleonic time that cannons are used as anti-personnel device.
Cannons were used against personnel a long time before that. Their main problem was lower rate of fire and mobility compared to later years. But you can find battles in early 16th century where artillery had great impact on the battles...you can even go back to 1450 (battle of Formigny) and find cannons fired at the English army, forcing some longbowmen to charge forward and capture them.

CBR

baz
04-18-2003, 11:23
i think we just have to hope that High gives us MP'ers a nice balance, it is great to see that LJ is doing what he can to implement that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif im not a fan of artillery myself and it is good to see this will only be available in late (if it is the devastating force they say it is) nice history lesson guys, and girls http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

ErikJansen
04-19-2003, 19:03
I believe the Organ Gun (EVIL ™ ) will completely unbalance MTW and force everyone to bring at least 8 of these to the battlefield if we wish to have any hope of success at all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Personally I look forward to the new toys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

ShadesPanther
04-19-2003, 20:47
It will be like Pavs, Yu don't like them but you will need them to counter the opponets Pavs which he will be bringing

PrithviRaj Chauhan
04-23-2003, 16:26
I hope, if they do include a organ gun, that the turks will have them tooo. I play exclusively as Turks. I dont mind that we dotn have pavs.... btu then there is nothing to compensate ....the Turkish archers are misrepresented greatly. I say this after playing Turks exclusively for 3 months. Its nto alwasy possible to prevent the pav war...especially on stppe maps..in a 3 on 3 for example the moblility of my horse archers is also limited and impeded by allies and enemies...I cant exactly get around the enemy in that kinda scenario http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif You get what I mean?.Improve the Khwazarmian cav as well.....jeeeez...i have seen historical pictures of them in the Topkapi museum in Istanbul...as welll as Drawings of them. They would probably kick Lancers ass We all know that the Arabian horse while slightly smaller is much easier to train and stronger than any other. Even that then should gve turkish horses more speed and better turning time . Plllllllssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
take care see yas http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Puzz3D
04-23-2003, 16:48
PrithviRaj Chauhan,

Maybe you can catch us online when we are using CBR's MPWars (Italian Wars and Crusader Wars) mod. The Khwazarmian cav are very good as are the muslim foot archers and horse archers. If you want to use a fast 60 man horse archer with 60 arrows play the Crusader Wars. There are no arbalesters in Crusader Wars. The western factions use non-pav xbows.

Shahed
04-23-2003, 18:25
Raj can't agree with you more. The Muslim troops though they are fun they are actually more funny than fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif They really get the shortest end of the stick, especially for MP.

You have been to the Topkapi WOW . Would you please share some pics if you have some of the armor and weaponry, standards and banners you may have seen there.

Puzz Hope to catch you guys in the foyer soon.

Shahed
04-23-2003, 18:31
As an afterthought (of which I have notoriously many):

The Arabian and West Asian horses were indeed faster than any other horse known in the Christian-Muslim world at that time. In particular the Turkish mares were some of the fastest horse archers in the Muslim armies. This may have been easily reflected in MTW.

Although you would have a unit that no other unit could catch, that is exactly how it was in reality. Only another West Asian or Arab horse could catch a Turcoman Horse Archer.

Kongamato
04-23-2003, 18:44
On the subject of Arab Cavalry, is there any chance that the new Faris cavs will have Fast speed? A fast cav unit with stats like Teutonic Sergeants could really boost the Muslim factions' power.

Asus
04-24-2003, 15:10
Getting back to the Organ gun... Although I do argee Horse archers could be improved upon, from the number of arrows they they carry to the speed of their steeds.

I would hate to imagine what MTW would be like without artillary even though I really don't use it a whole lot. I'm certainly not frightened to go up against a player using it because I rarely ever waste my valuable florins on my General. In other words the troops I bring to the field could careless if their spoiled prince general got popped off his horse.

I'm willing to bet this Organ gun isn't going to make one bit of difference. For all who cry for "balance" I have a solution; give the host the ability to select what units will be allowed for their particular game There already is an extreme lack of hosting options for multiplayer and this is one that would solve the balance issue for some as well as satisfy those seeking to play by specific rules,(which I do quite often). Anybody who likes playing with unit restrictions (rules) whose not in a clan knows how frustrating it can be just getting people to follow them. You have to continually type in over and over do you all understand the rules...? And even when they do some forget or get a kick out of breaking your rules.

In any case the Organ gun will be great fun I'm sure, especially when I field a few and turn the bass up on my 5.1 surround sound system Hahaha I can hear the neighbors now hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

and oh yeah I suppose I need to add this:

Me & ALL My FRIENDS WISH For A MULTIPLAYER CAMPAIGN IN ROME TOTALWAR

Puzz3D
04-24-2003, 16:32
Asus,

Your whole army suffers a morale penalty if your general is killed.

My concern about the organ gun was triggered by GameSpot's preview which is apparently in error. High era will avoid all the weapons of mass destruction.

Asus
04-24-2003, 16:50
Your whole army suffers a morale penalty if your general is killed.

Yes Puzz I know this. I just have talent for overcoming the odds I guess. But seriously, don't waste money on your General it's better spent on your troops. Buy a good elite unit for the General and don't upgrade unless you got more florins then you know what to do with. Hold the General back as long as possible, but keep him near.



Yes I Wish for a Rome Totalwar Mutliplayer Campaign

MF_Ivan
04-24-2003, 17:31
As long as they have improved Arquebusiers and handgunners to at least an appropriate purpose to use, then I will be as happy as a kyte in a wind.