View Full Version : Bodies that hamper movement

03-16-2003, 16:18
Currently in MTW your troops can easily charge across a field of corpses. Heavy cavalry is barely slowed down at all even if half of their number dies from a withering volley of arrows. They just pass thru the ethereal bodies of their comrades.

Realism-wise, it would be nice to have bodies that obstruct movement. That way the effectiveness of missile units could be improved by giving them the ability to break the momentum of enemy charges and to disrupt formations, and this would make missile units more viable without increasing their killrates to realistic levels (which would probably lead to imbalance.)

Perhaps it wouldn't be a good idea for corpses to completely block movement, something like 50% reduction in speed or just being forced to march instead of marching quickly or charging would do the trick.

Whaddya think, comrades?

03-16-2003, 17:21
Agree. Not only bodies should slow movement down, also certain terraintypes (swampy, shrubbery).

03-16-2003, 18:09
I agree. In MTW a dying body blocks, but needs to block for a longer period of time to have any effect. In RTW, there are several options to deal with dead bodies, such as

Dead remain physical objects that pile up and get in the way

Dead turn into sprites

Dead fall down but are completely pass-thru

Dead disappear

03-16-2003, 20:51
also maybe some hedgerows should get in the way a lot more

03-17-2003, 00:59
Yes there's definitely room for better terrain effects all-round.

Eg the effect of a muddy field tiring troops, hedges disordering those crossing them and preventing cavalry from charging, crossable rivers, rocky ground, brush, etc all having effects particularly on "close order" troops such as pikemen and legionaries.

03-17-2003, 03:58
Nice idea but there are far more important things that need to be addressed in RTW. I say keep the dead bodies the way they are; dead and out of the way.

However, I definitely agree with Tosa and the others regarding terrain. Muddy, uneven and/or broken terrain and its effect on the movement and cohesion of certain types of units would be fantastic. Hell, it would be nice if CA incorporated an occasional stream or two into the battlefields of RTW Different variants of the same type of terrain would also be welcome; sparse forest, dense forest, small bushes, entangling hedges, etc. I would also suggest incorporating man made obstacles and the like. Stakes, caltrops, pits, traps, etc...

03-17-2003, 07:28
It sounds like a good idea. The only drawback I can think of is, will it detract from gameplay? Of course not if implemented in the right way, so if this were to be put into the game, there should be limits as to how much the bodies can pile up in any particular spot. Because on the one hand, it would look quite strange if a unit simply walked through a pile of bodies that was taller than they, and on the other hand, if the bodies were kept solid so the troops had to actually march over them then maneuvering around piles of bodies could detract from the overall experience imo. Its a nice idea though.

03-17-2003, 16:34
> Nice idea but there are far more important things that need to be addressed in RTW.

For me it's one of _the_ most important things... to have more usable archers in multiplayer without making them pumped-up killing machines. If corpses were physical objects, that could do the trick. That way, when a volley of arrows hits a charging wedge of legionaries, at least the charge would be slowed down a bit, something that is not happening in MTW. The best solution might be to not block movement entirely (could lead to all kinds of problems), but to simply force the individual men to move at march/walk speed instead of charge/run whenever they are "on top" of a corpse, regardless of the amount of corpses on that spot of ground. (Currently in MTW the corpses do pile up somewhat, it's most evident in bridge battles. It looks quite funny when a unit of swordsmen charges across a bridge and passes through mounds of bodies that reach to their shoulders... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I don't pretend to know how terrain is implemented in RTW, but adding movement-affecting properties to textures and/or terrain features and putting in the possibility of traps could be quite a task. No doubt the devs have such things on their wish-list, but we'll have to wait and see if they make the cut.

03-19-2003, 06:31
Indeed if you read Polybius's account of the Battle at Zama between Scipio and Hannibal, the final advance by the roman hastati on Hannibal's veteran was hampered by the slippery blood and innumerable corpses and limbs that littered their advance. I dont think it turned out to be a factor as the veterans didn't charge at that time and waited too long, eventually getting charged in the rear by returning roman cavalry.
I think corpses would provide too much of a graphic hit. Maybe a large blood stain.

03-19-2003, 07:03
I think the streets of Rome should flow with blood. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It'd also be cool to see rivers turn a blood red from the blood flowing in.

and walls/mounds of corpses would be awesome too.

Magyar Khan
03-20-2003, 02:14
remember adding realistic elements may add nothing or even reduce gameplay. instead of bodies i ma more interested in terrain obstacles like stakes

03-20-2003, 03:06
the roman's "dealt" with dead bodies in two ways. Well they didn't do it really but...There was a lull in the fighting once about two ranks were worn down, for more info on this see: http://webpages.charter.net/brueggeman/table-of-contents.html

Second only about 1.5% (i think, its something low tho i know) causulties occured during engagement but the rest were during routing, in mtw its definitely a lot more and mass routs are still a complaint.

IN conclusion for this to be realistic is not possible, and we want battles with enough time to think not everyone running away quickly. I think terrain things like these would annoy people, they do already i think...steppes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif duh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

03-21-2003, 18:09
i hope so the slow down but only step over the bodies

03-21-2003, 18:38
I don't want to see animations for body avoidance (not worth the resources IMO), but I like the idea of it slowing your troops down.

I also agree that charging units should be considerably hampered if a unit in front of them is mowed down.