Best Approach to River Assaults in STW?

[Barkhorn1x]

I have worked my way up to the Hard level in STW and am playing as Hojo and about to put the kybosh on Eusegi (after snuffing Takeda).

My question is, "What is the best way to approach river assaults when you have basic ashigaru,YS, SA and YC?"

Any assistance you can give is appreciated.

Regards,
Barkhorn.

[Dark Phoenix]

Well a tactic to use is to use Ashis as pin cushions to soak up the arrows. The try and get accross to the other side and get a foot hold and strike from there.

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DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

I am no hero I just like to hit people in the head. :p

[Algesan]

Deploy your SA on both sides of the bridge, one line after the other.

Send your YA across as mentioned to eat arrows and maybe pin some enemy units close to the bridge where your SA can shoot them up. Remeber not to stack all your YA close by the bridge, send them over one by one bringing each up from a flank when the previous one routs over the bridge.

Keep a YS close to the bridge to stop any pursuit, nothing better then having the defender assaulting the bridge. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

After that, just start piling on the YS until they are all fighting. Add Cav and SA as needed.

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

In the beginning of the game, i use my daimyo for bridge assaults. He passes first and i send him AWAY from the AI units who all start to run after him, so i can pass the rest of my units unharmed and attack them in the rear or flank.

This work only in the beginning when you have 3-4 units and facing about the same number.

[Swoosh So]

I find that you shouuld try and get across and behind the enemy with cavalry, its possible but u have to judge it right, also whn marching yari samurai across just b4 they exit the bridge pop them on hold formation and halt them this way you may have the defender attack u on the bridge and i dont believe u get a minus, as earlier stated use weak units to soak up arrows, if u can get your cav across the bridge and behind the enemy you can draw archer fire as you cross the bridge

Swoosh

[Barkhorn1x]

Good advice everyone, thanks. Last night I ferried 2 brand spankin new YC units across the bridge early on and after the battle (which I won w/ more losses than the enemy), I had like 25 left.

River assaults eat up manpower big time. Give me manuevering in the open any day. Still, I now have Mutsu, Dewa (sp?) and Etchigo under control which means big Koku come harvest time.

Regards,
Barkhorn

[Catiline]

Check the Strategy archive for advice, htere are some good tips there.

another tactic early on with hte daimyo is to arrange your archers in ranks of three as colose as you can to the bridge. Put your Daimyo in loose formation and send him back and forth acroos the bridge. The enemy will send down Yari to engage and your archers can slaughter them. the daimyo will take casualties from enemy archers, but they replenish so that's ok. Works well against Takeda where DPs tactic won't the enemy YC will chase him down.

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Oderint dum metuant

[Gothmog]

Gentlemen I have a related question about river DEFENSE.

What's the best defense? They all say river provinces are ridiculously easy to defend, my observation is sometimes hill provinces are better, even with timer turned OFF.

Was playing western clan (talking about the original STW). Took the river province Kawachi from Oda for its Koku output and strategic importance. Needlessly to say, Oda counter attacked with WAVES AND WAVES of troops. Fought quite a few huge defensive battles there, my troop size ranging from 500 to 700, Oda's ranging from 1000 to 1500, seriously outnumbering me most of the time. Glad that there was a nearby captured spear dojo to replenish my loss http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Now get to the point. Needlessly to say during those battles my prime goals were to:
1) hold the province
2) Get as many kills as possible while try to keep my own casualty to the minimum. Otherwise you bet those defeated army will come back with an vengance.

Initially I used the same technique for river offense. Basically used Naginata to hold the bridge while pummeling them with arrows (obsorbing arrows from their archers as the same time), then try to break them with my shock troops and hopefully sent them to a rout, thus begin the killing ogry for my Yari cavalry.

Well things don't often happen as planned. I had a couple of close-calls. Their infantries just kept pouring in, and the stagmate was really hard to break. It's a frightening sight to see their half a dozen full-strength units came em masse, eventually stacking on top of each other (or beneath) in that tiny bridge and all my No-dachi were flashing that tiny little white flag! And I had to risk my general to calm them down. Got a really lously killing ratio: 400 kills with 296 loss. Combined my three units of No-Dachi after the battle and only got 23 survivors.

A couple of turns later, they attacked with 1500 men, while I had barely 500.

This time, I got so pissed that I retreaved all my troops far away from the bridge and deployed them on the tiny slope at the end of the map.

Oda's troops crossed the bridge systematically.

Well, their first Yari cavalry unit was soon neutralizd by arrows. The following infantries, weakened by range missiles, now had to fight an uphill battle. Even such a small slope gave me an advantage. I was still outnumbered but they couldn't come all at once. Eventually their general came forth and got flanked by my Yari Cavalry. The enemy army fought on a bit but eventually rounted after the head of the boss was taken.
Here came the best part of the story, half of them were killed before even seeing their own side of the bank, for they had to stand nice and put in a queue, waiting to recross that tiny bridge.


I enjoyed a huge victory with 507 vs 42 kills! Would never happen if I used the "blocking" the bridge technique.

So it seems to me that in a bridge defense, letting the enemy cross is not a bad idea. On the other hand, if one decide to hold the bridge at all cost, it'll only lead to boring archer duel and melee attrition.


[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 08-20-2001).]

[Lord Aeon]

This probably won't help much (for the early part of the game), but kensai are excellent for bridge defense. That is, if the saint doesn't get the frights and run away. If you have more than one, it's a cinch. I like to stick that guy on the end of the bridge (not off the bridge, because fast moving units can just get around him), and place high honor yari samurai directly beind him.

SOME of my archers are deployed in double lines along the edge of the river by the bridge, and when the enemy attacks, i run in high defense units to support. The idea is that the enemy takes heavy casualties on the bridge itself, so that if i have to pull back to a near hill, i still have archers (arrows) left and am picking off enemy units that are trying to climb the hill while the rest of the enemy's units are struggling to cross the bridge. This way i can demolish the units one at a time... relatively speaking.

It is key that you withdraw from the bridge at the right moment, because if you're vastly outnumbered, your units trying to hold the bridge will begin to rout when they get tired. Not to mention that this way you can more easily withdraw your units from the skirmish, saving them for another battle (since fewer of them will be slaughtered on the rout, or by enemy archer units on the other side of the bridge).

Also, if you can manage it and it's not raining fiercely, guns are excellent because the range is short to the bridge and they clobber a good amount of enemy troops.

Lastly, sometimes it's better to back off and let your enemy cross the bridge if he isn't using lots of cavalry units. There will be that traffic jam on the bridge and at the end of the bridge (since your enemy will likely try to cross all his troops at once), which is a field day for your archers because (1) their missed shots will likely kill an enemy of another unit, and (2) your archers are far enough from the bridge that enemy archers on the other side of the bridge can't hit them.

Like i said, it probably doesn't at all, but i hope this helps.

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"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

[Vanya]

The A-1 ABSOLUTELY BEST bridge assault tactic of ALL time (in STW, at least):

Get a pile of BNinjas and send them to swim across river. They are the only unit that can swim, so they can cross rivers and swim out to sea!

When swimming out to sea, they just have to be mindful of sharks if they are doing so off the Florida coast...

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Gothmog]

Quote Originally posted by Lord Aeon:
This probably won't help much (for the early part of the game), but kensai are excellent for bridge defense.
[/QUOTE]

Haha, this is a bit off topic, but I like that idea of one man keeping an entire enemy army at bay.

If you read Chinese history, there was a period called "three kindom era", when three major kingdoms (along with numerous other warlords) fought for the domanion of ancient China. This is similar to Sangoku period, but happened more than a thousand years earlier and the battles were on a much larger scale.

The legends says, that once during a bloody campain, one brave general, renown throughtout the country for his physical prowesss, stood alone on the bridge head (of course he had a few hundred soldiers ambushed in the woods but he was facing thousands), and scared the entire enemy army off.

[Catiline]

Horatius at the bridge

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Oderint dum metuant