Battlefield Ninja

[Jaguar]

Anyone know what the projectile weapon for the Battlefield Ninja is?

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Honour to Clan Shades!

[HATAMOTOKILL]

HI jag,NO! but would like to know how these units work on battle field? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Hato!!!
Knight Owltwwooo!!!
http://hatamotokill.homestead.com/files/owl_flap_md_wht.gif

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Do I KNOW? No - but I can take a very safe bet. Given their very short range - the deadliness of the ranged attack and the lack of seeing a projectile, my money would be on poisoned darts. Note that darts are used often in the assassination animations, and the profile of the attack matches blowdarts.

As for the question of how Battlefield ninja are used... Leave them still and they will conceal - even on open ground. *Makes me think of the cover holes in the 3 Muskeeters movie!* When an enemy approaches VERY CLOSE - they can see the unit even while it is concealed. But if they are that close - your ninja should be pelting them with "darts" anyway. Battlefield ninja also excel at melee combat - offensively at least. They drop like flies due to no armor, but they will easily take 3-4 men apiece with them. They also appear designed to counter Kensai Sword Saints - which really balances out what many, myself included, saw as a major game imbalance.

Remember that when they move - they lose concealment. I do not know if the AI "forgets" where they were or not. You can BET a human opponent that spots them will not!
So - tactically - they are a real challenge to use effectively - as they are easily countered if you know they are there. Cavalry excel against them. Remember that they are not skirmishers or battle units, but special forces for special tasks.

Hope this helps.
Qapla!

BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Lord Aeon]

Hmmm... shuriken, maybe?

Not the 5-point type, but the one-point weighted tiny knife type a la Ninja Scroll.

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"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

[BakaGaijin]

I believe that Target said they're using compact bows.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[JAG]

me jag http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif he jaguar! lol http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

yeah target said if i remeber right that they were using some sort of bows!

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Watch out for that. . . . . Dam too late!. . . the story of my life!

WarlordWarrior

[A Nerd]

I has 20 ninjas take out 120 SA in melee in sp with no casualties

[Kurando]

I've never used them myself so I'll leave the particulars to someone who knows better (like [wonton] atlus).

All's I can say is that they add a lot to the MP experience + there are very sneaky and fast little buggers. You almost need eyes in the back of your head when you are playing against them + the only way to kill them (if you can locate them) is to either chase them down with cav, or to hit them from two sides at once.

I agree with most people that the Mongol vs. Hojo componants of the new MP game are very poorly balanced, but I think that units like the Battlefield Ninja's make the new version of the Japanese vs Japanese MP games much better then the old version.

If the 1.13 version of the patch adds these new units to the old version I probably would not bother to buy MI. (Unless of course you are a diehard single-player type because I must admit that the Mongol vs. Hojo match-up is brilliantly suited to the SP campaign experience and the game's AI).

[Jaguar]

I agree that they are GREAT units, perfect for flanking. I rarely lose any, and they gain honor quickly, probably because they're always outnumbered. Does anyone know if they cause friendly fire? Might have to run a few tests.

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Honour to Clan Shades!

[Red]

I read compact bows but after using them and taking a closer look it appears to be shuriken or throwing darts?!

[Swoosh So]

yep the ninja are great they can be seen while moving but if u flank and move a step at a time they instantly become concealed when stopped also i played a game on bungo i sneaked the ninja thru the woods they are invisible moving in woods btw and got round the back of the hill i sat and shot a ys unit from the edge of the woods because armies were gunfighting my opponent dident notice my ninja were 2 cm away lol!!! there max range and decimated the whole unit then half a nodachi unit with their missles he then noticed and charged me with the half unit i ran down woods with the ninja he followed and my hidden kensai charged them with my ninja 2 no losses 2 units blown away hehe was great fun and added alot to that game ninja need alot of attention but are great fun very vulnerable to arrows tho but beyond ninjas range arrows cant taget them as they have no flag till they get close ninja also kill kensai ive heard although ive never tested, some may say they are 2 powerful because i destroyed 2 units but 1 and a half of that was ranged fire the opponent just never noticed, i havent faced them in multiplayer yet and hope i never do lol!!


Swooooooooosh

[Koga No Goshi]

I suppose it doesn't really matter, but to me it looks like they're raising one hand and throwing something when they're doing ranged attack, so I would guess shuriken. I don't see a bow or a pipe and in either case you wouldn't use a throwing motion with your arm for either of those weapons, right?




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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

[Jaguar]

I'm probably gonna sound like an idiot, what's shiruken?

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Honour to Clan Shades!

[Kurando]

A shiruken is one of those throwing stars thingys that high school metal-shop teachers always confiscate from us...

[Hosakawa Tito]

The description in the manual says bows,but I have to agree that they appear to be throwing something, not drawing and firing a bow.They simply kick a$$ against melee units.I believe they are more vulnerable in the open against Cav,but still take many more enemy with them before they die.In a campaign as Shimazu on expert level,I sacrificed my BN unit in Shinano province during a failed attack against Takeda to allow my Daimyo the chance to withdraw to fight another day.All my Daimyo's hatamoto were dead and he was exhausted.Those "Dirty Dozen" ninja's held off and occupied 2 YC units and a ND unit long enough for my Daimyo to get away.The logfile showed they had 53 kills at the end of the battle,1 of the 12 routed and escaped and gained 4 honor points.In multiplayer these guys must be devestating.

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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[Ratta Yamamoto]

Ninja unit is great to use for assassinate the Enemy Taisho. Just like in real life. They are great fighters, they kill many and doesn't die easily. Usually, they are the last unit to die.

[Irving]

they are great when they are yours and are bitches when they are someone elses

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Kiwi]

I have been using them in assaults on Castles as well as general use. They are simply unbelievable. 200 kills for losses of 1 or 2?

On a bridge attack I sent one unit across and put him behind the Taisho and waited for battle to commence so it was not so obvious where it was coming from and then let them go. 245 kills for loss of 3!!!

You can keep your Kensai - I will stick with these guys. The AI used a unit against me once and I thought my computer was playing up because every now and then I was seeing a thin line of 6 guys coming out of nowhere. Took me a couple of seconds to realise what it was.

With their speed and their defence they are amazing! The only thing that can catch them is cavalry and I once was attacked in a province with only one unit of these guys in it. 80 Cavalry archers against 12 BN. 14 of there CA got away for 4 losses on my part. Pretty scary. I like the new game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Battlefield ninja are deadly - and YES they are the unit of choice against Kensai - if the swordsaint is lucky he MIGHT kill one ninja before they get him. Cavalry is the way to kill them, anything else is too slow or to dead.... 8-)

Also - as for what they are using - i originally thought it was darts - however, play a few custom games with them and examine them from all sides ---> they do have small bows in their hand. The firing animation sequence is not very clear but at the right angle you can definitely see they are short bows. My guess would be the arrows are poisoned. LOL. One note - I have not yet seen the actual projectiles tho...



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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Khan7]

hehe, can't hold the guys at CA to too high a standard for their little animations, hell look at the hatchet-job they did with Naginata Cavalry.. anyway, it's the content that counts, and the animations are good enough :-)

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Khan7

[Algesan]

Quote Originally posted by Jaguar:
Anyone know what the projectile weapon for the Battlefield Ninja is?

[/QUOTE]

The listing in the projectile text file is Ninja Star....

[DragonCat]

Best part is they are sneaky petes. I never see them till its too late.

They are really great to use to come in behind an engaged unit. They can't do anything about it except to start hemmoraghing men.

Also, in the rain, they are almost invisible. Don't make your general one though as the general's flag gives them away.

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DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."

[A Nerd]

Try placing the BN in the heap of a bridge assault (attacking) have them use ranged weapons and check the stats at the end of the battle! Quite vicious invisible killers these cloaked harbringers are...

[Khan7]

Well, my one complaint is that it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get them to engage in melee unless the target in question is pressing melee on THEM. I guess you just have to be happy with their little stars, grrr..

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Khan7

[Koga No Goshi]

I'm getting the feeling that B-Ninja and Kensai are roughly analogous to Warrior Monks and No-Dachi in the original in the sense that one is markedly more useful than the other beyond the cost difference.

Just one thing they need to be ultra careful of... guns! I tend to use my ninja as advance scouts and such the way I used to use cav archers, but I started mine ahead of my army and lo and behold, the enemy had placed his lines as far up as he could and my ninja started staring point blank at guns! By the time they ran back to my lines there were only 3 left (sniff)...



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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

[Warmaker]

If you can send your Battlefield Ninjas (BN) to find the enemy taisho, attack his unit and kill him, that greatly boosts the chances of the rest of your army (morale, etc.). These guys are quite nasty, but to keep them from dominating a battlefield/game they cost alot and require lots of time to train...

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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!

[CeltiberoSkullXIII]

MAYBE ARE MOSQUITOS - NINJAS JAJAJAA

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"It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it!" http://gifanimados.ya.com/terror/calaveras_banderas/flag_wht_blkbns_clr.gif

[DragonCat]

Battlefield report.

Was defending a steep hill (hey the attackers chose the map!) and decided to put my one unit of ninja at my far left flank halfway down the slope. Above them I had a unit or Cac Archers and a unit of No Dachi, behind the crest of the hill.

My worthy opponent sends his TWO units of ninja skulking through the weeds. I can't believe it, he has them heading towards my ninja who are concealed.

Despite the fact that I can SEE his ninja, I can't target them. I keep a close watch on them with my Cav Archers selected so I can open fire at first opportunity.

Then, wonder of wonders, he actually moves his ninja right next to my ninja who jump out of concealment and engate his ninja in battle.

Now that they are revealed, my Cav Archers cut loose.

I then send the No-Dachi down. Result, I loose 2 ninja- he loses both units except for one man who routs back to his own lines to tell the tale.

It was hilarious! God, I love these units, LOL.

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DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."