A concern when playing Hojo in Mongol campaign.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Anyone had this happen to them? The mongols attacked and I backed off QUICK! I concentrated my forces in Nagato and Iyo - basically bottling up the Mongols on a small subset of the Islands. They just had the western most one. The horde attacked a number of times but I literally just threw everything I could into those 2 spots and kept them stuck. To me it seemed like a logical strategy. Next thing I know, the Mongols get reinforcements - on IZUMO!!!! They didn't even know that bloody province was there! Luckily one of the armies I had moving up was able to contest the landing and I threw the invaders back into the sea. At this point I said ok... Must be he can land on my northern flank - gotta watch that. So after garrisoning about every other northern province on the mainland's western "arm", I keep going - all the while trying to hold the horde off in the west. Still - I succeeded - everything was looking rosy - fighting off the horde both multiple north landings and west. I had finished my tech-up mostly and was considering when I could go offensive when BOOM - a bloody army landed on ECHIGO!!!

Now - to be honest - I can kind of understand the landing in izumo - although personally I don't think its fair to impliment that kind of goofy flanking. But to land in bloody Echigo was just too much. Anyone else seeing this kind of weird landing pattern?

Feedback as always is welcome.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Algesan]

The longer the game goes on, the more the Mongols will land to the east on any of the provinces on the north side of the map. The best thing it so build up quickly to push the initial horde back. In the meantime I left a few units under a good general in Mimsaka, Yamashiro and Shinano to be able to contain later reinforcements. However, if you keep them penned up in the West, then they won't be getting all the loot to get big reinforcements.

[Nelson]

Yes. In my first Hojo campaign the Mongols were never able to leave their initial enclave (Chikugo?). After several efforts to break out only one new Mongol army landed in Nagano and was promptly repulsed without any plunder at all. Two counter-attacks later and the campaign was over in the summer of 1276.

I say two because my first counter-attack was also my first experience with the new reinforcement scheme. Having driven the initial Mongol remnants before me I was soon engulfed with cav archers all around my pursuing and fatigued army. It was my only defeat in the campaign and a hard lesson in discipline.

Anyway, my experience at normal difficulty as the Hojo and the Mongols indicate that Algesan is correct.

[Vanya]

I think they will land in Dewa too, but can't recall for sure...

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Funnily enough, someone (for the life of me can't remember who, my apologies) complained about this sort of thing NOT happening in the "post your reviews" thread. I replied that it would be criminally ahistorical, but apparently the developers decided to include it anyway. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Granted, this never happened historically, but that doesn't actually mean it wouldn't be possible. During the second invasion the Mongols actually had the sense to sail to a different part of Kyûshû after having been repulsed at Hakata Bay multiple times - they just didn't have the time to stage an attack on an unfortified side of the island because of the typhoon. But since the kamikaze doesn't happen in STW, it is plausible that the Mongols could choose to sail past the Japanese defence lines - as there was no Japanese navy, their mastery of the seas was nearly complete.

Echigô might be an exaggeration though. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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"Sincere diplomacy is no more possible than dry water or wooden iron."
- Josef Stalin

[Vanya]

I forget what year, but do they also land in Totomi?

[VoodooChild]

It makes perfect sense to me. And since the Mongols concurred most of the known world, its not a stretch that they would have enough strategic sense not to land in a place that they were already pinned down.

I'm greatfull that the landings are not random every game, and take place only on one coastline.

[ishikawa2]

Since the whole thing is pretty much a historical "what if", and is pretty much pure fantasy, I guess I would not be surprised to see them land anywhere with a seacoast. I would hope the programmers might have built in a bias towards south and west, at least early in the game, but I guess I'd have to expect landings anywhere as the game drags on... even Echigo.

(or Dewa, Mutsu, etc.)

My sense of the flow of the game is that when playing as Hojo you really need to bottle up the Mongols WHEREVER they land and kick them out of provinces they do hold so that the Khan just doesn't send massive reinforcements.

[hecose]

I'm playing Hojo on Hard, and boy it's tough. Totally different from playing Mongols on Hard. I'm only into the 2nd year of the campaign. I have managed to contain the 1st Mongol force in north Kyushu, having won some and lost some battles (all were very tough battles). I even lost Hizen for one season (and my port was destroyed) but managed to take it back. I have trimmed down the 1st batch of Mongols and should be able to kill them off soon.

Then my problem comes. The Mongolian reinforcements landed and took Buzen & Nagato. Most of my lands are empty around there. I have an army in Aki but all nearby provinces are empty because I wanted to concentrate units in the Aki army. I'm going to keep the army in Aki and wait for the attack, because fighting defensively is easier. Also I need to protect the Aki port. But what's going to happen when the 3rd batch of invaders come. My next army is in Mimasaka and only has 5 units. So far I haven't even seen any MHC. MLC are already very scary.

At this point should I use my army in north Kyushu to kill off the 1st batch of Mongols and continue to attack the 2nd batch from behind? Do Mongol reinforcement landings slowly shift towards the east side of the northern shoreline? I.e. no more new landings in north Kyushu?

What should the general strategy be when playing as Hojo? I try to play defensively at first because it takes a few turns to move troops to Kyushu. Actually I try to be on the defence most of the time, and only attack when I'm pretty sure I can win. But the Mongols are like an unstoppable flood. Should I use shinobi's to cause revolts? Should I retreat to some front somewhere (Shikoku, or somewhere near Mimasaka), giving myself some breathing space since the Mongols need to garrison newly conquered provinces? What's everyone's experience in playing Hojo on Hard? Do you get pushed back to a certain front before being able to hold back the Mongols and counter-attack?

Hmm... maybe I should start on Normal Difficulty Level... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Any suggestions / ideas on strategies for playing Hojo in the Mongol Invasion campaign?

[Algesan]

You sound like you are doing fine. The only thing I did different was since I _knew_ the Mongols could land anywhere (having played Mongols first) was keep the basis of an army (4-5 units) in Mimsaka, Yamashiro and Shinano. I built a port in Tosa and in Bizen or Harima. Then I just cranked NC out of Yamashiro, YC out of Shinano, AX out of Tosa, SA from Totomi and YS/NI out of Hitachi. Always make sure you build the cav units first, you need them. Owari would have been another good place for Ashis but never have gotten around to it.

Contain in Kyushu. Stream forward to Nagato/Iyo and build up your containment/counterattack forces there or a little further forward. If another army pops up like happened to you, then divert the reinforcement stream to a nearby leader and take the sucker out. He has no turf to retreat to so he stands and dies. Your Aki army would be a good choice.

The key is pillaging. If the Mongols get to pillage, destroying the Hojo infrastructure, then they win. If you can contain them, the Khan forgets about them and they wither on the vine.

[Warmaker]

For me as the Hojo in the MI campaign, the best strategy is to ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK! Investing a bit of money into ports into strategic areas to quickly ship troops is also key. For cheap forces, YS and A.X-bowmen in teams are decent compromises. The crossbows can inflict good damage on the mongols, esp. the MHC. Don't waste your time with Japanese cavalry since they're useless against the Mongols, esp. against ANY of their cavalry. Disciplined use of the infantry will win the day!

If you can bring into play more exotic units like WM, No-Dachi, etc. it'd be nice, but the priority is in mass producing reliable, inexpensive units. The YS are quite good for this.

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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!

[Nelson]

I would caution anyone against ignoring Japanese cav. The Mongols can be made to break and when they do CA and YC will cut them up. Hold them for the riposte and they are very useful. YS and SA are still the heart of the Hojo army but I never like to be without some horse.

I advocate a bitter defensive strategy for the Hojo. Stand firm everywhere and let the Mongols come to you on good defensive ground while you reinforce. Make them pay dearly for any advances. A busted early offensive can have devastating consequences after it denudes a region of troops.

[hecose]

Algesan, thanks for the tips. I have progressed a bit further (1278 now), and am doing better. Now the Mongols are confined to just one province - Suo. They still have 1.5 army (approximately one 16-unit army + one 8-unit army), whereas in the 3 surrounding provinces I have about 1.5 armies each.

In the previous season they had about 3 full armies and I had about 1 full army in each of the surrounding provinces. I decided to attack because if they chose to split say 2 of their armies to attack any one of mine, I'd quite likely lose. I didn't expect to win, because looking at the way reinforcements arrive, I won't have enough time (it's autumn), and I don't have enough mobility + speed like the Mongol cavalry. So indeed I lost the battle, but I whittled down their numbers. I basically wiped out their initial 16 units, but when their MHC came in as reinforcements I just told my taisho (Honour 4 heir) to run for his life. In the end I lost more men than the Mongols, but I have cut down their numbers a lot, to ensure they can't break out from Suo. No pillaging, no reinforcements from the Khan. Yay! So basically what I've done is sacrifice my heir's Honour (I lost the battle) but wear down the Mongols. Actually I also sent in a few ninjas beforehand to kill their Honour 2 general.

[hecose]

Warmaker, I disagree that ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK would be the best strategy for playing Hojo. At least not on Hard Difficulty. The Mongol cavalry are simply too powerful, and the Japanese does not have that kind of mobility + speed. So I think playing defensively is more advantageous. I did attack but only when I have a significantly larger army or when I have made sure that their army is mainly Korean foot soldiers, not Mongolian cavalry.

I agree that AX are pretty useful. Most of my battles are pretty long and their ammo can last very long. Also they have good penetration power.

Nelson, I agree on the necessity of Japanese cavalry. For chasing down routing Korean foot soldiers (I could never catch up with routing MLC) and for flanking the Koreans, esp skirmishers & bombers. I always try to flank them before they can get near enough to launch their projectiles (which are totally scary). YC can be effective against MLC, but only if you can catch them.

[Algesan]

Warmaker does have a point if you have the units. I did some spoiling attacks with YS and AX that I knew I would lose. What it got me was a chance to grab a hill and set up before the MLC came thundering up. I fight a nice little missile duel while his Koreans slog across the field and up my hill. Then you can either run or attempt to maximize his casualties at the cost of your troops. I have gotten some use out of YA and cav by using it to chase his MLC around a bit. This stops it from firing and if done correctly keeps him in range of your AXs. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif